The Hal Houle Post

BC21 said:

You said it here....I put it in bold....

I can agree that beginners don't have the eye or knowledge to diagnose real
problems

What you said above is what I meant to post. But speed posting without proof reading took place because this isn't the highlight of my day and activities.

but I'd say the majority of experienced ameteur players do. Hell, I'd even go as far as saying that with the tons of instructional material available in books and on YouTube, even a beginner nowadays has access to the knowledge that'll allow them to self-analyze and diagnose their own pool stroke or golf swing or whatever.

Access is better than it's ever been in our history. But it still doesn't mean they can "get it" from that alone. Things really need to be taught and learned in sequential order which they don't know. It's piece mill patched together.

It just takes more effort than running to an instructor for immediate answers. But since most people just want answers, it makes better sense to get help from an instructor if you don't already have the knowledge needed to self-analyze.

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When you first started playing pool or guitar and knew then what you know now, how much better would you have been in a far shorter period of time than you were through trial and error on your own?

That having been said, how does an experienced instructor in ANYTHING hurt, especially if they're REALLY good at teaching, diagnosing, and playing?

Are you saying you'd rather learn everything on your own or spend a week with Aranis to learn exactly how he does it all mechanically and how his thought processes take him around the table shot by shot?

Please don't make the wrong answer and look totally stupid...for your sake.

SpiderWebComm said:

When you first started playing pool or guitar and knew then what you know now, how much better would you have been in a far shorter period of time than you were through trial and error on your own?

That having been said, how does an experienced instructor in ANYTHING hurt, especially if they're REALLY good at teaching, diagnosing, and playing?

Are you saying you'd rather learn everything on your own or spend a week with Aranis to learn exactly how he does it all mechanically and how his thought processes take him around the table shot by shot?

Please don't make the wrong answer and look totally stupid...for your sake.

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Oh hell yes I wish I knew then what I know now! There is really no excuse for younger people today, like 10 to 15 years old, to learn how to do almost anything they can imagine simply through YouTube. Of course there'll have to be some work and time involved on their part, but the resources are there.

It never hurts to have a good instructor in person, but in many places this is simply not available or not affordable.

One hour with Aranas taught me plenty, no instruction, just observations. As a musician I would've loved to have had $20 a week for guitar lessons, or piano lessons. But I didn't, so I had to work at it myself. That's how it goes, how one learns to a little bit of everything. Most of the time we do for ourselves what we can't afford to pay a "qualified" person to do. And when you start doing these things you realize that they are easier and less costly than what the qualified people let on.

I just repaired my girlfriend's central air in her house. I'm not an HVAC guy, but I know how it works and I have plenty of electrical and electronic experience. I had to replace the control board outside and the stepdown transformer inside, $50 in parts and 1 hour of my time. It saved her about $500. She said, "When I was growing up my dad would always pay somebody else to fix stuff like this. How did you know what needed fixed?" I told when I was growing up my dad fixed everything. There was nothing he couldn't do, except maybe stop drinking. So I grew up with the attitude that I could fix anything, or learn how to do anything. Same attitude I guess carried over into music and whatever sports I liked.

BC21 said:

Oh hell yes I wish I knew then what I know now! There is really no excuse for younger people today, like 10 to 15 years old, to learn how to do almost anything they can imagine simply through YouTube. Of course there'll have to be some work and time involved on their part, but the resources are there.

It depends on how simple or complex it is to learn and perform. I don't think many kids are going on the internet to view YouTube to learn stuff. They're on their phones or internet for everything else though.

It never hurts to have a good instructor in person, but in many places this is simply not available or not affordable.

That depends on what it is also. I'll bet there are some great moonshine instructors where you live. LMAO

One hour with Aranas taught me plenty, no instruction, just observations.

Not the same as knowing specifically what's going on in his head as he's shooting/playing with verbalization.

Most of the time we do for ourselves what we can't afford to pay a "qualified" person to do.

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There's always a price to pay if it's pulled out of the pocket money wise or a price to pay if you don't.

It takes a much longer time to learn a sport...pool, golf, tennis, bowling so the price you have to pay by doing it yourself is time through the trial and error stage to get to higher levels of skill.

If gambling is involved between friends, at bars, pool rooms, tournaments, lessons
to get better faster can not only pay for themselves but turning over a profit.
Even more money gambled regularly on the golf course. A LOT more.

SpiderWebComm said:

There's always a price to pay if it's pulled out of the pocket money wise or a price to pay if you don't.

It takes a much longer time to learn a sport...pool, golf, tennis, bowling so the price you have to pay by doing it yourself is time through the trial and error stage to get to higher levels of skill.

If gambling is involved between friends, at bars, pool rooms, tournaments, lessons
to get better faster can not only pay for themselves but turning over a profit.
Even more money gambled regularly on the golf course. A LOT more.

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Very true spiderman, very true. But honestly, think of you and Allen Hopkins playing. How often did you ever have to ask him why or how he played a certain shot like did?

What I'm getting at is there comes a time when you've played enough pool, watched enough pool, lived enough pool, that you can easily see or figure out why one pro or another plays a certain shot one way or another. So there was really nothing for me ask from Aranas. I just watched, except when I had to play on the adjacent table, and the things he did made obvious sense. I saw a few simple things that I am now incorporating into my game.

Dan White said:

Why do you have to be such a dick?

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Why does a giraffe have to be such a giraffe?

pj <- it's in his jeans
chgo

Dan White said:

You are making the argument that having your feet and hip/torso in a particular alignment makes thinking about the elbow unnecessary because it will now be on the shot line and therefore it doesn't matter whether the elbow drops or not. I've only been playing around with those ideas for a few years now. It's a nice theory, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Very simplistic thinking. That's like saying if your elbow is in the right position then you don't need to think about your grip. More faulty thinking. Like the golf pro said, you have to know what your tendencies are. I don't care how well tuned your stroke is due to all the upstream work you do, you're still going to go off the rails from time to time anyway.

Here's one to think about: What am I to do if I find out that my speed and therefore cue ball control is better with a fixed (and not dropping) elbow (it isn't all about just having a straight stroke, after all)? Should I forget about my elbow and just move my feet a little and that will magically give me better speed control? I'm sure you've never even given it a thought because apparently you've never had to think about what your elbow was doing.

I don't care how you interpret what I wrote nor whether you give it any consideration at all.

Truth is, I hope you drown in your misery of finding the perfect stroke and continue to do exactly what you're doing. You don't know your elbow from you A-hole to begin with so keep searching.

Brian has been nothing but cordial in the face of unprovoked attacks like this. Why do you have to be such a dick? Hal seems to be your father figure so I'm guessing it is daddy issues.

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You're asking me about being a dick? LMAO. You've been that and WORSE for the last 10 years to everyone who has been associated with CTE. Look in the mirror Danny Boy. Every time you point the fore finger at me or someone else there are 3 fingers of your hand pointing back at you.

I'm thinking when you were in grade school and high school that you were this scrawny little dweeb who got bullied by everyone, including girls.

Now that you're hiding behind a computer screen unseen, you can pretend to be anything you want but have never been. A tough guy with a big mouth. ROTFLMAO.

Patrick Johnson said:

Why does a giraffe have to be such a giraffe?

pj <- it's in his jeans
chgo

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Why does a Johnson have to be such a Johnson? It's also in his jeans and he's a Johnson through and through.

BC21 said:

Very true spiderman, very true. But honestly, think of you and Allen Hopkins playing. How often did you ever have to ask him why or how he played a certain shot like did?

I have asked him. Like all the old players, he doesn't tell

What I'm getting at is there comes a time when you've played enough pool, watched enough pool, lived enough pool, that you can easily see or figure out why one pro or another plays a certain shot one way or another. So there was really nothing for me ask from Aranas. I just watched, except when I had to play on the adjacent table, and the things he did made obvious sense. I saw a few simple things that I am now incorporating into my game.

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Since you came up with Poolology, you might have asked him how he aimed.

Tyler could tell you how he aims.

Dan White said:

I don't post because I want to know what you care about. We've established long ago that you can't defend your positions about fairytale aiming methods so you resort to ad hominem attacks. Most everyone else has to be the adult around you.

I reply to some of your threads to help some readers understand that you don't really know what you are talking about. You talk a good game, but any guy who swallows Stan's and Hal's crap can't be trusted.

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Nope! This isn't an ad hominem attack by INNOCENT DAN WHITE. He would never do that. Wtf?....

SpiderWebComm said:

Since you came up with Poolology, you might have asked him how he aimed.

Tyler could tell you how he aims.

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Wonder what he used against Oy?! Cuz that was effin brutal.

Dan White said:

Page through this thread and tell me who the first guy was to start insulting other people out of left field. Your daddy issues could be a good thesis for some aspiring intern at the local asylum.

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Your bullied issues as a youngster could be a good reason for you seeing a shrink regularly. But then again, you probably already are.

Yo, Brian. Do you feel you were attacked in any way or was it the normal way of the forum and posting? I thought it had some good back and forth both ways.

Nobody was insulted. You make false claims to throw crap out there as if it was true and you come out on stage and do all the insulting and baiting yourself.

Real cool Danny Boy. You'll be back because you can't help yourself and you're addicted to mayhem, name calling, and starting flame wars.

You never could be King on the Mountain when it was played as a kid but now you think you can hiding behind a screen on a forum. A real tough guy...

Don't forget what you always do, report posts after you initiate all the garbage.

SpiderWebComm said:

Nobody was insulted. You make false claims to throw crap out there as if it was true and you come out on stage and do all the insulting and baiting yourself.
Real cool Danny Boy. You'll be back because you can't help yourself and you're addicted to mayhem, name calling, and starting flame wars.
You never could be King on the Mountain when it was played as a kid but now you think you can hiding behind a screen on a forum. A real tough guy...
Don't forget what you always do, report posts after you initiate all the garbage.

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Is that guy still doing trouble in here like he has been doing for years?
I keep telling ya' Spider, throw the donkey acting people on ignore and you'll never have to read their silliness, lying, and anger again.
You're going to be amazed at how much more pleasant it is when those pests are CUT OFF, BLOCKADED, and DISMISSED.
Try it for 2 weeks and see for yourself. It's the only way to get rid of them because they ALWAYS "just have to" get in the last word.
Regards,
P.L.

duckie said:

Please do...........

For me, the best practice for my stroke is pocket speed practice. Just putting enough stroke on the CB so that the OB barely goes into the pocket. Plus, I stay in position until the OB drops.

I seldom, if ever, seeing anyone doing pocket speed practice.

The reason being,.......you have to slow your stroke down, requiring really good muscle control.

And........I build my stance around my grip.....now that’s gonna sound strange.

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Floaters are easy to miss. We're quick to blame table roll off, but I think it's more about muscle control.

Building your stance around your grip makes sense to me if you know the path the cb needs to travel. Your cue and grip must be aligned to send the cb where it needs to go, from there you can position your body/stance to accommodate the line. On most shots I step right into the line and then bring my cue in around that stance. But on some shots its the other way around....my cue sets the line and I position my body/stance however I can comfortably fit it in.

SpiderWebComm said:

Yo, Brian. Do you feel you were attacked in any way or was it the normal way of the forum and posting? I thought it had some good back and forth both ways.

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We're good. I don't feel like I was attacked. I mean, I'm used to the smartass replies. :wink: And you know me, I'd let you know if it was too much. I'm pretty straightforward when it comes to that stuff. I'd probably lay it out in a nice long analogy just to piss you off. Lol Just kidding. Like I said....we're good.