below-the-rack break shots

krupa · Oct 2, 2012

Do you avoid them, embrace them, or grudgingly accept them?

Watching accu-stats and 2006 World 14.1 Pool Championship Series, it seems that people really tend to avoid below-the-rack break shots. Granted, angles are misleading on DVD, but occasionally it looked like the player really went out of his way to avoid it.

-matthew

sfleinen · Oct 2, 2012

krupa said:
Do you avoid them, embrace them, or grudgingly accept them?

Watching accu-stats and 2006 World 14.1 Pool Championship Series, it seems that people really tend to avoid below-the-rack break shots. Granted, angles are misleading on DVD, but occasionally it looked like the player really went out of his way to avoid it.

-matthew

I practice them -- and I LOVE them! Reason: you're pushing the balls into the largest open space on the table (not having balls bounce around and cluster back together in the bottom half of the table), and as long you control whitey, you almost always end up with a shot.

There are some DEAD scratches and pitfalls with the behind-the-rack break, and you have to practice this break to get to know them. Like *when* to use the "inside english to spin whitey 3 rails and out to the middle of the table." Select this one in the wrong situation, and you scratch in the corner pocket right underneath you.

The following video snippet from Pat Fleming's "Creative Edge" series is focused on break shots, and he relays a lot of good information on how to approach the behind-the-rack breakshot:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2iaEWtZOPSY

Hope this helps!
-Sean

stevekur1 · Oct 2, 2012

I love breaks hits from under the rack as well, but the one draw back is with pushing balls into a wide open area but a lot of times you are moving breakshots out of the breakshots zone. And most of the time you are left with more unconventional breakshots as a result !

Steve

DogsPlayingPool · Oct 2, 2012

The balls generally are going towards up table and the fear is the cue ball not escaping and getting stuck down low without a ball to play in one of the foot corners. But there are some things I like about the shot. Usually it's a fairly easy pot and you're not forced to stretch out over the head half of the table to reach for the break shot.

Practice around with it. I took a lesson from John Schmidt in which he told me that if you are going to contact the stack after the middle ball you should use outside to come off the side rail out to the middle of the table. If you are going to contact the stack early (before the middle ball) it is better to use inside and come three rails and out.

alstl · Oct 3, 2012

DogsPlayingPool said:
The balls generally are going towards up table and the fear is the cue ball not escaping and getting stuck down low without a ball to play in one of the foot corners. But there are some things I like about the shot. Usually it's a fairly easy pot and you're not forced to stretch out over the head half of the table to reach for the break shot.

Practice around with it. I took a lesson from John Schmidt in which he told me that if you are going to contact the stack after the middle ball you should use outside to come off the side rail out to the middle of the table. If you are going to contact the stack early (before the middle ball) it is better to use inside and come three rails and out.

That's good information and that is the shot which gives me trouble below the rack. I've executed the three rail shot before, a cool shot when it works, but frequently the cue ball runs into another ball and ends up in a bad place.

Object ball on the rail, coming one rail into the bottom of the rack is a shot I'm more comfortable with.

Pushout · Oct 3, 2012

I don't shy away from them as long as I can get the cue ball where I want it

I think it's Ray Martin who actually prefers behind the rack break shots.

sjm · Oct 3, 2012

In the countless world championships I attended, I saw few who intentionally played patterns for under the rack breakshots. Nonetheless, sometimes even the best players had to settle for them, and yes, they had to practice them.

Of the choices offered, I'd say these break shots were, on average, accepted begrudgingly.

Worth noting that in the Derby City Straight Pool Challenge, n which one begins with any break shot one chooses, I've never seen anybody set up something under the rack ---- that's because nobody views the under-the-rack break shot as optimal for opening up the rack.

lfigueroa · Oct 3, 2012

sjm said:
In the countless world championships I attended, I saw few who intentionally played patterns for under the rack breakshots. Nonetheless, sometimes even the best players had to settle for them, and yes, they had to practice them.

Of the choices offered, I'd say these break shots were, on average, accepted begrudgingly.

Worth noting that in the Derby City Straight Pool Challenge, n which one begins with any break shot one chooses, I've never seen anybody set up something under the rack ---- that's because nobody views the under-the-rack break shot as optimal for opening up the rack.

er... no.

When I took my 14.1 lesson with Ray Martin I asked him what his favorite break shot was and he promptly set up a behind the rack break. I asked him if he preferred anywhere along the back more than another and he said, "It doesn't matter to me." So then I asked him why he liked behind the rack breaks so much and he said, "It's never failed to give me another shot."

Lou Figueroa

sjm · Oct 3, 2012

lfigueroa said:
er... no.

When I took my 14.1 lesson with Dallas West I asked him what his favorite break shot was and he promptly set up a behind the rack break. I asked him if he preferred anywhere along the back more than another and he said, "It doesn't matter to me." So then I asked him why he liked behind the rack breaks so much and he said, "It's never failed to give me another shot."

Lou Figueroa

Interesting. Thanks for sharing, Lou. Just another philosophical difference between the last generation of straight poolers and the present one.

nashville14:1 · Oct 3, 2012

Sigel below the rack

From what i heard on some commentaries, Sigel likes below the rack breaks pretty well, uses them often, and of course runs on out often from that break.

Paul Dayton · Oct 3, 2012

The three rails and out is easy with minimal practice and there is very little chance that any balls will get in the way of the cue ball until it is off the third rail and up the table. One rail and up the table has a higher chance of the cue ball getting kissed.

wigglybridge · Oct 3, 2012

Corey Deuel uses them a Ton in those videos at Bill's house. like, he goes out of his way to create them, ignore and destroy more conventional breaks to get to behind the rack ones, etc.

i find them by far the easiest break to control the cue ball, as stated, i almost never fail to get a shot following one, whether spinning off the side rail or using the 3-rail & out. they're also easier to get on, in many ways.

someone who's a much better player than me said above that there are lots of scratch possibilities with it, but personally, i've scratched Waaaaaaaay less with them than any other break shot; no comparison. in fact, i'm trying to remember Ever scratching with that shot; i must have, but certainly not in memory.

stevekur1 · Oct 3, 2012

wigglybridge said:
Corey Deuel uses them a Ton in those videos at Bill's house. like, he goes out of his way to create them, ignore and destroy more conventional breaks to get to behind the rack ones, etc.

i find them by far the easiest break to control the cue ball, as stated, i almost never fail to get a shot following one, whether spinning off the side rail or using the 3-rail & out. they're also easier to get on, in many ways.

someone who's a much better player than me said above that there are lots of scratch possibilities with it, but personally, i've scratched Waaaaaaaay less with them than any other break shot; no comparison. in fact, i'm trying to remember Ever scratching with that shot; i must have, but certainly not in memory.

I Almost did here @ 16:10!!! (dont know how to time-stamp...sorry)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiBfKo85z4g&feature=plcp

LOL
Steve

Raggedy Andy · Oct 3, 2012

I like the under the rack break shots, also. For players not familiar with them...it takes a little practice to get used to them. My general strategy is that if the object ball is closer to the outer edge of the pack, I set up to use follow with a lot of outside spin. That sends the cue ball, after hitting the pack, into the long rail and the spin takes over from there, sending it towards the middle of the table. The more tricky shot....is when the object ball is located at the middle of the bottom row of the pack. That shot requires follow with inside english....sending the cue ball into the same long rail, but then it heads back underneath the pack and two more rails and out towards the middle of the table. Only very unfortunate luck can cause you to get locked up after executing these break shots. And, I guess the under the pack shots where the object ball is on the rail, and the cut angle is opposite the above shots should be mentioned as well. OK, here goes....I hate those break shots. I have had many runs stopped by getting locked up or having a tough up the rail shot after the break. I avoid this break shot.

Raggedy Andy · Oct 3, 2012

Under the rack break shots

Here is another thought about these break shots. There is a reason that they are not used as frequently as the side breaks. If you watch good players work through racks, you'll notice that most of the time they tend to clear the bottom of the table out, as soon as possible. The great Jimmy Moore once told me that was called clearing the position lanes. A lot of position play towards the end of a rack is one rail, or two rail position and most often times you're using the bottom rail. So one of the reasons you don't see these break shots used as often...is simple......it is harder to save a key ball to get on the break ball. Unless the player makes the decision early in the rack to save a key ball for an under the rack break, it makes more sense to keep he lanes "cleared".

sfleinen · Oct 4, 2012

stevekur1 said:
I Almost did here @ 16:10!!! (dont know how to time-stamp...sorry)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiBfKo85z4g&feature=plcp

LOL
Steve

Steve / wigglybridge:

Here you go:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UiBfKo85z4g#t=16m10s

(The "#t=16m10s" tag at the end is the timestamping or timejumping technique.)

-Sean

lfigueroa · Oct 4, 2012

sjm said:
Interesting. Thanks for sharing, Lou. Just another philosophical difference between the last generation of straight poolers and the present one.

Funny thing is I named the wrong player -- it was Ray Martin who told me that.

Now, the flip side to that is when I took a 14.1 lesson with Dallas and asked him about the behind the rack break shot he said he didn't like it because it pushed too many balls up table.

Lou Figueroa

mosconiac · Oct 4, 2012

I like BTR breaks, but I don't use them very often. I have a simple criteria for them, which (unfortunately) minimizes my opportunity to use them.

1) The OB must be at least 1 ball-width away from the rack (to avoid the scratching issues),
2) the OB must not be under the middle ball (this creates a zone on each side of the rack about 2 ball-widths in length), and
3) the OB can not be lower than 1/2 the distance from the rack to the end rail (this allows me to get "under" the OB with the CB & NEVER have to come off the end rail with the CB).

This makes for two pretty small zones for the OB. I might use the BTR once in a race to 150.

wigglybridge · Oct 4, 2012

thanks for the direct link, Sean. turns out it doesn't work on Macs with Safari, at least, but i appreciate the effort. i could (and did) skip to that spot manually, but i also took the opportunity to watch the whole video again, which i think is one of Blackjack's best critiques -- maybe partly because he had a pretty high level player to comment on, which i think is his strong suit, bringing out the subtleties.

stevekur1 · Oct 4, 2012

wigglybridge said:
thanks for the direct link, Sean. turns out it doesn't work on Macs with Safari, at least, but i appreciate the effort. i could (and did) skip to that spot manually, but i also took the opportunity to watch the whole video again, which i think is one of Blackjack's best critiques -- maybe partly because he had a pretty high level player to comment on, which i think is his strong suit, bringing out the subtleties.

TYVM, Bob !!!

during that video I was flooded by distractions, which really came to a head during that last rack. I really lost my focus, looking back i see a better route that i could of taken off the breakshot.

Getting back to what i was saying, it is real difficult for me to shoot in that room, hence why i have been playing elsewhere lately. Dont get me wrong they are very supportive there and mean no harm, they just dont understand that i am very serious about my practice sessions. and i honestly think that if the you know what didnt hit the fan during this i would of put together a much better and higher number. after all i did cheat death on that breakshot...LOL

-Steve

below-the-rack break shots

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