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01-19-2020, 02:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Vorpal Cue View Post
That old nonsense about measuring cut angles from the line between CB/OB centers just demonstrates again why that measurement isn't used. Cut angles (and fractional alignments) are measured from the line of CB travel - of course.

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01-19-2020, 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21

No adjustments necessary I suppose if the two object balls are lined straight into the pocket, right? I mean, the system is supposed to always connect to one of the 8 90° angles on a 2x1 pool table, so unless the two balls in the combo are lined straight toward the pocket it won't work because the 1st ball (the one used go get your visuals) will automatically be sent toward the pocket, not to where it needs to be in order to send the 2nd ball toward the pocket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justcueit View Post
No, straight in or otherwise applies to what Stan said.

Connie Shuffett
Straight in makes sense, according to how Stan says the system puts you on the shot line for a center pocket shot. But it's extremely illogical to suggest that the system also works on combos where the balls aren't lined up straight to the pocket.

This is an example of poor PR, ambiguous instructions, ridiculous claims, etc... Here is the correct reply when someone asks if the system works for combos:

CTE PRO1 is used for all shots where a cue ball is used to pocket an object ball. This includes straight in shots, cut shots, and bank shots. Combination shots usually require aiming adjustments outside of the system parameters, unless the object balls just happen to be lined up in such a manner that the 2nd ball in the combination is perfectly aligned between the first ball and the pocket, which does occur on occasion, though not typically.


Saying anything else about combos and CTE is just a turnoff for anyone with basic common sense.


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01-19-2020, 03:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Which of these cue balls is too close to produce a 30-degree cut?

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Attachment 539321
They all produce a 30° cut (minus a little throw), but the one right against the ob will produce a hell of a lot more throw.


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  (#454)
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01-19-2020, 04:06 PM

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Originally Posted by justcueit View Post
You can pretty much toss out distance. For a given close up cue ball-object relation, one of the perceptions will work.

Concerning combinations: Typically the way two balls lay on a table with a cue ball, one of the perceptions will almost always produce a hit. A hit guarantees nothing, but for combinations most players are happy to use the entire width of the pocket. So, many combinations can be pocketed in a slop pocket manner. Who cares? Many combinations will also need adjustments to the perception. Bottom line: CTE is not exact for combinations, but the CTE perceptions will offer a hit and many times will pocket the ball without adjustment.

Stan does not switch to conventional vision when combinations appear.

Connie Shuffett
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Straight in makes sense, according to how Stan says the system puts you on the shot line for a center pocket shot. But it's extremely illogical to suggest that the system also works on combos where the balls aren't lined up straight to the pocket.

This is an example of poor PR, ambiguous instructions, ridiculous claims, etc... Here is the correct reply when someone asks if the system works for combos:

CTE PRO1 is used for all shots where a cue ball is used to pocket an object ball. This includes straight in shots, cut shots, and bank shots. Combination shots usually require aiming adjustments outside of the system parameters, unless the object balls just happen to be lined up in such a manner that the 2nd ball in the combination is perfectly aligned between the first ball and the pocket, which does occur on occasion, though not typically.


Saying anything else about combos and CTE is just a turnoff for anyone with basic common sense.
Brian, i think you misread the answer for combo's.
  
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01-19-2020, 04:26 PM

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Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
Brian, i think you misread the answer for combo's.
There’s no “think” to it. He just looked at the words minus any comprehension.

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01-19-2020, 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
They all produce a 30° cut (minus a little throw), but the one right against the ob will produce a hell of a lot more throw.
The same amount as with any stun hit - less with rotation on the CB.

The question here is whether they're all half ball hits (measured from the CB's line of travel) or all different hits (measured from the CB/OB centerlines). I think we both know the answer to that.

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01-19-2020, 05:28 PM

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Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
Brian, i think you misread the answer for combo's.
No. I posted that CTE would only work on combos if both object balls just happen to be lined up straight into the pocket, else adjustments in aim would have to be made. According to Connie, Stan's reply to this was....

"No, straight in or otherwise applies to what Stan said."

And what she was referring to with "what Stan said" is....

"Bottom line: CTE is not exact for combinations, but the CTE perceptions will offer a hit and many times will pocket the ball without adjustment."

The part I put in bold was not needed, and not exactly true. "Rarely" would be more accurate than "many times". Just pointing out one of the reasons Stan has been badgered all these years about some claims he makes that defy logic. It's no knock to CTE to admit that it is not intended for combination shots. No sense in trying to explain why or trying to claim that "many times" CTE works on combos with no adjustments needed, because it's not many times. It's only when the balls are in line straight to a pocket. Be realistic and people will accept things with an open mind. Be unrealistic and you lose a lot of people due to the bs factor.


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01-19-2020, 05:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
The same amount as with any stun hit - less with rotation on the CB.

The question here is whether they're all half ball hits (measured from the CB's line of travel) or all different hits (measured from the CB/OB centerlines). I think we both know the answer to that.

pj
chgo
That's correct. I was referencing a rolling cb hit, and there would be no roll from that close, so stun is unavoidable. Mathematically speaking, they all produce a 30° angle.


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01-19-2020, 05:48 PM

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Originally Posted by justcueit View Post
There’s no “think” to it. He just looked at the words minus any comprehension.

Connie Shuffett
That's the problem with some of what Stan says about CTE. He uses words that are difficult to comprehend because they lack reason and logic. CTE involves visuals between the cb and ob, which supposedly connects the ob to a pocket every time. Introducing a 3rd ball, like with a combination shot, interferes with the ob's path to its connected pocket. This means you have to tweak or adjust your CTE perception, or simply use a different aiming method, to pocket combos. It's that simple, and it shouldn't be something Stan has to spin in order to preserve the integrity of CTE. Be honest, be real, and more people will listen.


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  (#460)
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01-19-2020, 06:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
No. I posted that CTE would only work on combos if both object balls just happen to be lined up straight into the pocket, else adjustments in aim would have to be made. According to Connie, Stan's reply to this was....

"No, straight in or otherwise applies to what Stan said."

And what she was referring to with "what Stan said" is....

"Bottom line: CTE is not exact for combinations, but the CTE perceptions will offer a hit and many times will pocket the ball without adjustment."

The part I put in bold was not needed, and not exactly true. "Rarely" would be more accurate than "many times". Just pointing out one of the reasons Stan has been badgered all these years about some claims he makes that defy logic. It's no knock to CTE to admit that it is not intended for combination shots. No sense in trying to explain why or trying to claim that "many times" CTE works on combos with no adjustments needed, because it's not many times. It's only when the balls are in line straight to a pocket. Be realistic and people will accept things with an open mind. Be unrealistic and you lose a lot of people due to the bs factor.
"Concerning combinations: Typically the way two balls lay on a table with a cue ball, one of the perceptions will almost always produce a hit. A hit guarantees nothing, but for combinations most players are happy to use the entire width of the pocket. So, many combinations can be pocketed in a slop pocket manner. Who cares? Many combinations will also need adjustments to the perception. Bottom line: CTE is not exact for combinations, but the CTE perceptions will offer a hit and many times will pocket the ball without adjustment."
Seems you just want to put a spin on it. Most combos are straight in. Others require a small adjustment. The rest you should probably just play safe. So "many times" would be quite accurate when describing how often you can use CTE with combos.
  
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01-19-2020, 06:14 PM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
That's the problem with some of what Stan says about CTE. He uses words that are difficult to comprehend because they lack reason and logic. CTE involves visuals between the cb and ob, which supposedly connects the ob to a pocket every time. Introducing a 3rd ball, like with a combination shot, interferes with the ob's path to its connected pocket. This means you have to tweak or adjust your CTE perception, or simply use a different aiming method, to pocket combos. It's that simple, and it shouldn't be something Stan has to spin in order to preserve the integrity of CTE. Be honest, be real, and more people will listen.
The problem is the spin and misinterpretations non users put on Stan's words. I can guarantee you the players that have actually learned CTE and use it effectively do not share your concerns.
  
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01-19-2020, 06:24 PM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
I was referencing a rolling cb hit, and there would be no roll from that close, so stun is unavoidable.
I think if you hit the CB high enough for "instant natural roll" it will be the same as a rolling CB hit - any follow (or draw or side spin, especially gearing) put on the CB would presumably reduce throw, even if they're frozen.

Not trying to make a point, just rambling...

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01-19-2020, 06:38 PM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
That's the problem with some of what Stan says about CTE. He uses words that are difficult to comprehend because they lack reason and logic. CTE involves visuals between the cb and ob, which supposedly connects the ob to a pocket every time. Introducing a 3rd ball, like with a combination shot, interferes with the ob's path to its connected pocket. This means you have to tweak or adjust your CTE perception, or simply use a different aiming method, to pocket combos. It's that simple, and it shouldn't be something Stan has to spin in order to preserve the integrity of CTE. Be honest, be real, and more people will listen.
Pathetic post!

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01-19-2020, 06:47 PM

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Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
The problem is the spin and misinterpretations non users put on Stan's words. I can guarantee you the players that have actually learned CTE and use it effectively do not share your concerns.
Try this....

Set two object balls out on the pool table, at least 8 inches to a foot or so apart, and at least a couple of feet from a pocket, close to straight in but not quite. Now, with no regard for the ball nearest the pocket, shoot the ball closest to you straight to the center of the pocket (no cb, just shoot the ob toward center pocket). It will hit the second ball every time, of course. But the 2nd ball will only go into the pocket if you lined them straight in, else the 2nd ball will not find the pocket, and no amount of pocket "slop" is going to help. That is how well CTE really works on combos, at least in the real world.

There is no spin here. It's called reality. You play well enough to know what I'm saying is true. So does Stan. "Rarely" is the correct word for how often you'll get that 2nd ball to hit the pocket if you follow the instructions above. I find it unbelievable that you, or better yet Stan, the professional instructor, actually expect others to believe that many combo shots can be pocketed simply by shooting the 1st ball in the combo to center pocket.


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01-19-2020, 07:13 PM

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Originally Posted by justcueit View Post
Pathetic post!

Connie Shuffett
You all really do need to hire a non-cte-indoctrinated PR person, someone who can reply to questions without resorting to defensive tactics or spin. The combination issue should be no issue at all, because it doesn't take anything away from the system to be real about its limitations. But it sure does hurt it when certain things are said that most people recognize as pure spin or hype.

Anyone can do the combo experiment I posted above and discover what I'm talking about. The results just can't be ignored or discarded, because most people aren't that ignorant or gullible. Sure, if the near straight in combo is only a few inches or within a foot of the pocket, that 2nd ball might find the hole quite often because the margin of error is so great. But from 2ft or more away from the pocket, it'll be a rare occurrence to pocket the 2nd ball by aiming the 1st one to center pocket. And since CTE is supposedly a "center pocket" system, it should produce the same rare occurrences, unless, as Stan suggested, the perception is tweaked accordingly.


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