Hello, Just asking for some thoughts on league play. Once you reach an advance level, I would like to know some thoughts on how league 8 Ball may or may not help your game. I have felt for a while now that I have limited my advancement in this game as all we do is play one night a week as a team each of us just awaiting our turn every 20 minutes or so. I never played this way when I was younger and I played pretty well. Now after a hiatus of about 20 years the league sounded pretty attractive, but now I don't see myself getting any better, if anything, I played better before I joined the league. All comments pro/con are certainly welcome. Thanks!
Does League Play Limit your Potential?
- Thread starter rnsbr
- Start date
To get better you need to have opportunities to compete against better players under pressure, and also time on the table to practice the skills you discover you need to improve (be it by yourself or by sparring with other players).
Leagues can be certainly be part a positive. Generally speaking if there are players better than you in those leagues and some tournaments to play. The benefits of leagues are inexpensive opportunities to compete against tough players and in tournaments. You can go early to warm up and stay late to practice or spar. And competition goes a long way to motivate and encourage you to put in hours. So they can be very good.
But when you become the best in your league and aren't being challenged, then of course you have to find your competition elsewhere. That doesn't mean you can't play if you still enjoy them, it just means to continue to improve you have to keep finding the next bigger mountain to scale.
All in all, I think for many players a good mix of leagues, weekly tournaments, sessions with a good sparring partner, some practice on your own, the occasional bigger tournament and some videos and books make a great mix. Then of course there is the factor of what you enjoy, because if you love it you'll do it more and more.
Leagues can be certainly be part a positive. Generally speaking if there are players better than you in those leagues and some tournaments to play. The benefits of leagues are inexpensive opportunities to compete against tough players and in tournaments. You can go early to warm up and stay late to practice or spar. And competition goes a long way to motivate and encourage you to put in hours. So they can be very good.
But when you become the best in your league and aren't being challenged, then of course you have to find your competition elsewhere. That doesn't mean you can't play if you still enjoy them, it just means to continue to improve you have to keep finding the next bigger mountain to scale.
All in all, I think for many players a good mix of leagues, weekly tournaments, sessions with a good sparring partner, some practice on your own, the occasional bigger tournament and some videos and books make a great mix. Then of course there is the factor of what you enjoy, because if you love it you'll do it more and more.
JMHO, but competing in a league is better than just hitting balls by yourself or "playing for play" with a buddy. It will/should at least hone your competitive nature.
I play in APA leagues where I am a SL6 (8-ball) and a SL7 (9-ball. My captain knows that I prefer to play players ranked higher than I.
Try competing in some weekly non-handicapped tournaments and see if that doesn't up your game some. It did mine.
Maniac
excellent answers!
You have excellent answers already plus you kinda answered your own question in your post.
League can be more of a social event than pool competition. Hard to sit around drinking beer and smoking then hit the table fighting fit. League can put some pressure on you but chances are not enough. With most being handicapped there is little external incentive to get better. When your play is already good enough to beat your competition it is hard to get better.
You have to find motivation and that usually comes from within. You can use other players for yardsticks, picking one player after another better than you and setting the goal to just post better stat's than that person. That gives plenty of small goals to achieve while working towards your long term goal. Since you are in league, you might as well see how many patches and decals you can pile up too.
League play alone isn't going to make you a giant killer. I too had about a twenty year gap. I considered league to give me some structure and commitment. When I went to the hall on a few league nights I was very glad I hadn't committed myself yet. League isn't for me. That doesn't mean it isn't right for other people.
Hu
You have excellent answers already plus you kinda answered your own question in your post.
League can be more of a social event than pool competition. Hard to sit around drinking beer and smoking then hit the table fighting fit. League can put some pressure on you but chances are not enough. With most being handicapped there is little external incentive to get better. When your play is already good enough to beat your competition it is hard to get better.
You have to find motivation and that usually comes from within. You can use other players for yardsticks, picking one player after another better than you and setting the goal to just post better stat's than that person. That gives plenty of small goals to achieve while working towards your long term goal. Since you are in league, you might as well see how many patches and decals you can pile up too.
League play alone isn't going to make you a giant killer. I too had about a twenty year gap. I considered league to give me some structure and commitment. When I went to the hall on a few league nights I was very glad I hadn't committed myself yet. League isn't for me. That doesn't mean it isn't right for other people.
Hu
I play in an advance 8 ball league, and I get to play plenty of people that are better than
I am. We do not play in a round robin format, which is a turn off for myself, but we play
5 games against another player. Makes it a better match, IMO, it is team handicapped,
so if your team comes over a certain # of points, you have to give up balls, most teams
are over, so it becomes kind of a moot point. The toughest teams come under those points.
Most players don't drink, take the seriousness of the night to the next level. If you can
find something like that, it will help. If you cannot find something that challenges you, and
you enjoy it week after week, then bypass it. Nothing more detrimental to ones game
like forcing yourself to go play.
I am. We do not play in a round robin format, which is a turn off for myself, but we play
5 games against another player. Makes it a better match, IMO, it is team handicapped,
so if your team comes over a certain # of points, you have to give up balls, most teams
are over, so it becomes kind of a moot point. The toughest teams come under those points.
Most players don't drink, take the seriousness of the night to the next level. If you can
find something like that, it will help. If you cannot find something that challenges you, and
you enjoy it week after week, then bypass it. Nothing more detrimental to ones game
like forcing yourself to go play.
Yes, run away. I’ll flat out say it.
You need to play, and watch play up close, A players to see how the game is supposed to be played. These are guys that are at minimum favored to beat the 9 ball ghost on loose 9’ gold crown tables. Playing against D league players will get you nowhere.
You need to play, and watch play up close, A players to see how the game is supposed to be played. These are guys that are at minimum favored to beat the 9 ball ghost on loose 9’ gold crown tables. Playing against D league players will get you nowhere.
League play does not limit your potential unless you make it your only means for improvement.
You must supplement league play with solo practice, studying the pro game and matching up against players that are stronger players than yourself.
League play can be one of many methods by which you build your competitive pedigree, but don't let it be the only one.
You must supplement league play with solo practice, studying the pro game and matching up against players that are stronger players than yourself.
League play can be one of many methods by which you build your competitive pedigree, but don't let it be the only one.
I play Pool as I can because my schedule changes. After playing a good deal of One Pocket for a year or so, I joined and 8 ball In House League. Enjoyed it and got the feeling for 8 ball again. My previous One Pocket experience helped a lot and after a year of that, decided to join the Wed night 9 ball league to counter the 8 ball experience.
It took a few days of practice "to get" rotation again. So no I don't think it limits you but you need to really learn the discipline you're playing. There is no reason to put yourself in a situation where you're frustrated and have no chances to improve but sometimes you have to practice and switch disciplines in order to get better. The good parts from one discipline transfer to the other ones.As long as the league offers the chance to get better at something, you'll get something out of it. However there's no point in being over handicapped against if its just frustrating.
It took a few days of practice "to get" rotation again. So no I don't think it limits you but you need to really learn the discipline you're playing. There is no reason to put yourself in a situation where you're frustrated and have no chances to improve but sometimes you have to practice and switch disciplines in order to get better. The good parts from one discipline transfer to the other ones.As long as the league offers the chance to get better at something, you'll get something out of it. However there's no point in being over handicapped against if its just frustrating.
like any (pool) tool, I think league is what you make of it
I've had a great time doing a few leagues
pool is an individual activity, so being on a team is different
kind of fun
but if you've done them, and aren't seeing desired results
bail
especially if you've got limited time
there are a lot of things you can do
plenty mentioned in this thread
find a way to participate in pool that suits you
and if you time, don't be afraid to mix it up
enjoy the game.
I've had a great time doing a few leagues
pool is an individual activity, so being on a team is different
kind of fun
but if you've done them, and aren't seeing desired results
bail
especially if you've got limited time
there are a lot of things you can do
plenty mentioned in this thread
find a way to participate in pool that suits you
and if you time, don't be afraid to mix it up
enjoy the game.
Yes and No.
First the Yes:
Depends where you are in "pool". I went through APA all the way to skill level 9 and it got to a point where it had nothing else to offer me in regards to wanting to continue to improve and getting tougher competition on tougher equipment.
The majority of league around here is barbox. Small and loose. (insert juvenile joke here). There came a point when my free time became a bit more limited and valuable to me. It was better for my pool game to spend that evening shooting all night on a tight 9 footer for practice or in action rather then sitting around for 4 hours waiting for my match if I shot at all (and the higher you get, the less you shoot).
Now the No:
If you are a lower skill level player, the regular, free competition will be great for you as well as the comradery with players that are more advanced then you and will provide you advice. I joined league when I first started playing pool. My Dad played pool his whole life and taught me a ton of stuff. I joined a team that had a really good 9 and he taught me stuff as well and we went out and shot pool regularly and he took me under his wing a bit.
So pool league also really helped,
These are just my experiences and it could be different from player to player, league to league, town to town. If you are questioning it, I'd recommend taking a session or 2 off league and see what happens.
With all this being said, and being out of pool leagues for 8 years, I'm still playing more then ever. My quality of playing and practicing when not shooting at home is better and more satisfying. I'm 99% sure that I would never join one again. If I ever decide to entertain that 1% chance and join a league again, I'm 100% sure I would regret it.
See my disclaimer below...
First the Yes:
Depends where you are in "pool". I went through APA all the way to skill level 9 and it got to a point where it had nothing else to offer me in regards to wanting to continue to improve and getting tougher competition on tougher equipment.
The majority of league around here is barbox. Small and loose. (insert juvenile joke here). There came a point when my free time became a bit more limited and valuable to me. It was better for my pool game to spend that evening shooting all night on a tight 9 footer for practice or in action rather then sitting around for 4 hours waiting for my match if I shot at all (and the higher you get, the less you shoot).
Now the No:
If you are a lower skill level player, the regular, free competition will be great for you as well as the comradery with players that are more advanced then you and will provide you advice. I joined league when I first started playing pool. My Dad played pool his whole life and taught me a ton of stuff. I joined a team that had a really good 9 and he taught me stuff as well and we went out and shot pool regularly and he took me under his wing a bit.
So pool league also really helped,
These are just my experiences and it could be different from player to player, league to league, town to town. If you are questioning it, I'd recommend taking a session or 2 off league and see what happens.
With all this being said, and being out of pool leagues for 8 years, I'm still playing more then ever. My quality of playing and practicing when not shooting at home is better and more satisfying. I'm 99% sure that I would never join one again. If I ever decide to entertain that 1% chance and join a league again, I'm 100% sure I would regret it.
See my disclaimer below...
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Join APA Masters Division. It is the best league format I have played to date. You will usually be matched up against a strong opponent and its a race to 7 with a mix of 8 and 9 ball. It's not perfect but it is by far the coolest league set up for stronger players.
One scenario for improving your game that is continually ignored is playing matches
against the lowest SLs. Many times an opposing team will throw off on me(7 in 8ball, 9
in 9ball). When this happens, I don't consider it a waste of my time and bangs balls
around the table in frustration. I often get as much out of playing a 3 or 4 (who is
capable of stringing some balls in a row), if not more, learning to focus and executing
quality safes not playing low percentage shots and controlling the table. The goal is to
shut out my opponent, without being overbearing or obnoxious doing it.
against the lowest SLs. Many times an opposing team will throw off on me(7 in 8ball, 9
in 9ball). When this happens, I don't consider it a waste of my time and bangs balls
around the table in frustration. I often get as much out of playing a 3 or 4 (who is
capable of stringing some balls in a row), if not more, learning to focus and executing
quality safes not playing low percentage shots and controlling the table. The goal is to
shut out my opponent, without being overbearing or obnoxious doing it.
It's been said, but to repeat - depends a LOT on your local league, and then your attitude.
I found NAPA league locally really improved my game. Like playing a tournament once every week. I'm still a very low level player, but it changed my focus after almost 30 years away from the game. That said, local league 2 years ago had several shortstops and one pro player. It tended to drive everyone up a notch. A couple years ago 5 from our league cashed at the NAPA nationals, including 1st in 8 ball & second in laggers choice (8,9,10 ball). In NAPA you can compare your absolute national rank (points) at any time, so there is that driver if you actually start to get above a 100 rating.
All that said, i have not played in 2 years again, due to distance and catching up on other interests (aviation, house renovations) as wife & I went on SS.
good luck with your decision.
smt
I found NAPA league locally really improved my game. Like playing a tournament once every week. I'm still a very low level player, but it changed my focus after almost 30 years away from the game. That said, local league 2 years ago had several shortstops and one pro player. It tended to drive everyone up a notch. A couple years ago 5 from our league cashed at the NAPA nationals, including 1st in 8 ball & second in laggers choice (8,9,10 ball). In NAPA you can compare your absolute national rank (points) at any time, so there is that driver if you actually start to get above a 100 rating.
All that said, i have not played in 2 years again, due to distance and catching up on other interests (aviation, house renovations) as wife & I went on SS.
good luck with your decision.
smt
Reading this thread is a little depressing. All references to "league", as far as I can tell have been referring to "American" leagues, like APA... And advice is forthcoming about how to improve, using (American) league as the avenue, and people seem to be sympathetic.
And here I am in Germany, a member of the German league system, and it literally has none of the issues of most leagues in the U.S. If you suck... you play "Kreisliga", against other people in the same general skill level. Fail to field a team for a scheduled match? Your club gets fined like 500 Euro. For that single match. Massive peer pressure for people to commit to the team for the season, and to show up for scheduled matches.
And Germans take it SERIOUSLY. I rarely see an alcoholic beverage consumed before the match concludes. If your club is short on a higher level league team, and one is asked to "step up" to the next level to help out the club, the Germans still expect you to practice.
All the problems with leagues in the U.S. basically come back to the same thing: We see it as a "game", whereas the other countries see it as a sport. So, choices are basically, play for fun, and hang out with friends, or unless you are in an area with very very strong barbox players who maybe play BCA, your best option is to play tournaments. Full disclosure: I moved to Germany from Colorado state, which has very strong barbox players, and the vast majority of them play BCA. For me personally, I would probably only play BCA, if I were trying to improve. That being said, I had a 7 foot Diamond in CO, and simply never really practiced on it. Just not challenging enough.
It is our lack of taking the game seriously in the way the Germans do, that allows league setups like the APA to exist. Hokey handicap system designed purely to drive more teams, with no consideration of encouraging players to improve. There are no "tiers" to graduate to in American pool, unless you play BCA and go to nationals. The secret of improvement, as others have stated above, you improve by playing better players, and getting your head beat in. And taking that beating seriously enough to practice hard for.
And here I am in Germany, a member of the German league system, and it literally has none of the issues of most leagues in the U.S. If you suck... you play "Kreisliga", against other people in the same general skill level. Fail to field a team for a scheduled match? Your club gets fined like 500 Euro. For that single match. Massive peer pressure for people to commit to the team for the season, and to show up for scheduled matches.
And Germans take it SERIOUSLY. I rarely see an alcoholic beverage consumed before the match concludes. If your club is short on a higher level league team, and one is asked to "step up" to the next level to help out the club, the Germans still expect you to practice.
All the problems with leagues in the U.S. basically come back to the same thing: We see it as a "game", whereas the other countries see it as a sport. So, choices are basically, play for fun, and hang out with friends, or unless you are in an area with very very strong barbox players who maybe play BCA, your best option is to play tournaments. Full disclosure: I moved to Germany from Colorado state, which has very strong barbox players, and the vast majority of them play BCA. For me personally, I would probably only play BCA, if I were trying to improve. That being said, I had a 7 foot Diamond in CO, and simply never really practiced on it. Just not challenging enough.
It is our lack of taking the game seriously in the way the Germans do, that allows league setups like the APA to exist. Hokey handicap system designed purely to drive more teams, with no consideration of encouraging players to improve. There are no "tiers" to graduate to in American pool, unless you play BCA and go to nationals. The secret of improvement, as others have stated above, you improve by playing better players, and getting your head beat in. And taking that beating seriously enough to practice hard for.
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JC
Coos Cues
I play in a league where not a single player is better than me. In a town of 40k my meager 600 fargo is top dog.
With a family and young child I can't travel much to find better competition. 100 miles minimum to get a good match.
So yes, league play is a complete and total waste of time from a pool standpoint. It's a social event.
It is what it is.:frown:
With a family and young child I can't travel much to find better competition. 100 miles minimum to get a good match.
So yes, league play is a complete and total waste of time from a pool standpoint. It's a social event.
It is what it is.:frown:
Love league apa after a long hiatus. I get in 2 hours of practice (but only stay on table when I win so it's not full two hours) then 1 or 2 APA matches. Wish I could hang out later to spar but it's often late and I head home. I practice at home 1 or 2 hours most days. And once a week play a superior player at home, 9-ball (apa) and straight pool to 100. I'm trying to get another player to add a second evening of good competition. I'm only a 5 in both 8-ball and 9-ball but I'm getting better and hope to be a 6 soon.
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