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You get what you pay for, ... if you are lucky!
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ShootingArts
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You get what you pay for, ... if you are lucky! - 04-11-2020, 01:58 PM

I didn't have my lathe set up and I had long been curious how some cues were sold so cheap so I bought a Schmelke. Tried a 32" shaft, it was simply unplayable. Made my old moochie seem like a piece of iron pipe! I whacked a couple inches off of the shaft and put a top quality ferrule and tip on it and it played OK, I like a soft hit anyway.

After I had it for months I lightly bumped the shaft against something and my cue broke half in two! Easy to see the problem, the shaft wasn't threaded for the insert. A hole was cut just small enough that the threads of the insert barely scored the wood. A small dab of glue finished the fit of insert to shaft.

Tossed the shaft, it was now garbage. When I turned my own shaft I put an insert for a G-10 pin. When I pulled the pin out of the butt I found it was a very cheap pin made from threaded stock and only about 3/4" long in the butt.

For my hundred and I think sixty-five dollars I ended up with a very thin one piece bocate butt and a cheap rubber bumper. Not sure if it stayed straight or not.

This is my one experience with Schmelke. I have no idea if it is typical or not but what looks good for two days, and seems good months and years later can definitely be two different things. Oddly enough, with Dean saying fit and finish might be a little lacking, outside appearance seemed to be Schmelke's strong points looking at my very plain cue.

I hope happy people stay happy. I didn't feel too bad about getting $35 worth of wood for the price of a cheap cue, I would feel like a world class pigeon if I had paid five hundred dollars for what I got.

I do have to wonder how many would have paid $500 for a jackpot if they knew in advance it was made by Schmelke?

Hu
  

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  (#32)
jasonlaus
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04-11-2020, 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
Boy, this Forum is turning into a bucket of blood joint.

Dean has been promoting pool, the game we all love
or supposedly so, with passion, sincerity and at times,
even a sense of flair. I participated in 2 Schon Tribute
cue projects, the Bushka I and Bushka II projects with
Jerry R. and Bob Owen, and the Design Your Own Cue
project also with Bob. Speaking personally, each project
was entirely fun, exciting and all of the pool cues turned
out wonderful. Iíd do it again in a heartbeat but for the
ivory ban but thatís a horse of an entirely different color.

Dean has also ingenuously come up with the Mystery Cue
offerings and to the best of my recollection, the buyers seem
to be pleased. I donít see complaints about the cues that the
buyers received. Additionally, there werenít issues with the many
tribute cue projects either and the buyers were all pleased. I know
that I am thrilled, even actually proud of the pool cues I still have.

Dean came forth & offered an explanation furnishing the background
behind these Jackpot SP cues and for the price, no one is making a
bundle nor getting screwed. Furthermore, the sale proceeds were for
a significantly important, urgent need. So now people with lots of time
on their hands and little better to do want to criticize a really decent
guy all the while Deanís many former customers remain silent and
unsupportive. Well, not this one & I enjoy reading his threads & posts.

As far as Iím concerned, the Az community is better off because of people
like Dean Campbell and his long history & vast experience with pool, cues,
cue-makers, leather craftsmen, pool table restoration.....the list seems endless.


Matt B.
You can build a 1,000 bridges but.....

That is the situation here.

Dean stepped in it on this one.

Dean as a whole(99.999%) is great to have on this forum, he would have been much better off just letting this one go.

Jason<---glad he didnt buy one of these cues, but still likes Dean.
  
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04-11-2020, 02:02 PM

Way to go Cocobolo Cowboy.......I overlooked your post and it is great to see one of Dean’s customers
stand tall against the mob reactions. To each their own but ad hominem attacks are juvenile & verboten.


"My Pool Cues"

*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
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*Tim Scruggs Custom (05-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
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*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)
  
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04-11-2020, 02:03 PM

Things happen.

Last edited by JoeyInCali; 04-11-2020 at 02:24 PM.
  
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04-11-2020, 02:07 PM

Well most people, like 100% are happy dealing with DEAN.
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04-11-2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CocoboloCowboy View Post
Well most people, like 100% are happy dealing with DEAN.
This thread is about this particular adventure. Sometimes swell people make bad choices.

Sent from the future.
  
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04-11-2020, 03:55 PM

whats a jackot cue and where is this coming from? any pics of the cues?
I found a jackpot cue on google, plain jane, is that it?
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showt...=504540&page=2

edit: ok, I did some research, and it seems to me that a snake salesman took a dozen people for a ride. $100 cue and sold it for $500, made a quick $5K profit on what others saw as a guy with a 100% itrader score. he ruined his rep and killed his business for a quick profit. schmelke is apparently a better cue maker than the reputation they have as a cheap alternative for a custom. people thought they had a better product simply from a name change. all parties involved are dumb, the salesman and the buyer. the only person to come out ahead is schmelke, as they make a pretty good cue after all, if they put a different name on it the cue gets better, lol. I bet they could make a southwest clone, and they would play like a southwest


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Last edited by trinacria; 04-11-2020 at 04:38 PM.
  
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04-11-2020, 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanoc View Post
Jack and I had thought about the project over the years,sharing our ideas
with you from time to time.

He had such good success with the Libra and I had the Deano cues with
Schmelke blanks finished by John Nemic I approached several friends in the
business about the idea before proceeding.

Larry Vigus was in no position to help with any hands on work,I talked to
Shelby and he was too busy, I went to Paul Drexler who is always so helpful
to anyone in the cue business needing help. He made the suggestion to
me that I contact David Schmelke. saying he does great work.


Schmelke is a tremendous cue making company with the ability to manufacture
cues in any price range and has experience building cues for others.

Did you know that many,if not most of the Titleist blanks so popular today
were manufactured by Schmelke for Brunswick?. Schmelke also made the
blanks for John Nemec when he made the Deano cues.

Rick Landsberg of Best Billiards in Orange County bought hundreds from Tad
who had bought the left over stock from Schmelke when Brunswick quit
using them.

When Schmelke took on the project I was very happy because among other things
I had a very reputable USA company with not only the talent and ability to handle these
cues but also Schmelke had vast amounts of great old wood and good
shaft wood available( perhaps the best in the world)

I recently bought a large amount of excellent ebony from Schmelke for some of the better
cue makers,high dollar cue makers in America.

Jack and I discussed our project and tested several cues in trial runs to be sure we got what
we wanted .a distinctive powerful responsive hit that we felt like was our own

The thing that impressed us and caused us to go forward was the great shaft wood and
Schmelke's proceedure of making great shafts. I have seen $5000 cues with shafts that were
not as nice as what we got.

Just a word ... first after several passes (cutting and sanding and processing) a vigorous
shaft pretparation beginning with sealer ,spinning and finishing, then a special 3 step process
of applying spinning polishing ending with a wax.

Why didn't we explain everything up front?

It was unimportant ,served us no purpose and both parties were feeling each other
other out,if there had been a problem with something there was no use in spreading the blame.
There was no problem

Not one customer complained about the play ,while several called and ordered as many as 4
more,great pool players claimed they loved the play.

We like to think we had something to do with that result.Schmelke did great work,
they provided great materials and payed close attention to details,provided everything according
to our specs and time tables.

We are proud of our product which we consider a great success. The cues play good,look good
and enabled us to put a nice cue in your hands for a good price.


Schmelke is a tremendous company and they have been putting great cues at low prices in
players hands for years.


A great deal of controversy was caused by people with absolutely no financial involvement,
they were not customers and had not touched the cues.

Not one customer did or could lose money because we stood behind the product with a
no question asked ,money back guaranteed if the customer wanted his money back with
a normal period of time.

Our sneaky pete was built to the same specs and hit the same.Several cues were sent
to the Philipines to support youth pool sponsored by the Anito KID

One of his 15 year old kids beat Efren and we wanted to provide these kids the chance to play
with top quality equipment at no cost.

Your purchases helped suport that project and any extra profits went a great deal toward helping
Jack with unexpected hospital bills.

Originally ,I had planned on taking my profits and having a good time with the family.
As you know I have never been ashamed to make a profit and I don't intend to start to change.

Please do not take this as an apology, I am proud of everything we did . This is just a public
explanation which I am making now unforced or coerced.

We are now facing a major crisis,perhaps the biggest since the big war.My mother had to ration gas,
and now maybe it's toilet paper. Some are losing jobs.
Our industry is certainly facing hard times for the short term.

I am grateful to those of you who increased your orders while we were being criticized,and to the
dozens of you who told us to keep our chin up and not let the turkeys get us down.

I should offer a hearty thanks to our detractors who while attempting to do us harm
have actually provided us with increased orders and letters of support from the rest of you.



Dean
  
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TATE
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04-11-2020, 04:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
Boy, this Forum is turning into a bucket of blood joint.

Dean has been promoting pool, the game we all love
or supposedly so, with passion, sincerity and at times,
even a sense of flair. I participated in 2 Schon Tribute
cue projects, the Bushka I and Bushka II projects with
Jerry R. and Bob Owen, and the Design Your Own Cue
project also with Bob. Speaking personally, each project
was entirely fun, exciting and all of the pool cues turned
out wonderful. Iíd do it again in a heartbeat but for the
ivory ban but thatís a horse of an entirely different color.

Dean has also ingenuously come up with the Mystery Cue
offerings and to the best of my recollection, the buyers seem
to be pleased. I donít see complaints about the cues that the
buyers received. Additionally, there werenít issues with the many
tribute cue projects either and the buyers were all pleased. I know
that I am thrilled, even actually proud of the pool cues I still have.

Dean came forth & offered an explanation furnishing the background
behind these Jackpot SP cues and for the price, no one is making a
bundle nor getting screwed. Furthermore, the sale proceeds were for
a significantly important, urgent need. So now people with lots of time
on their hands and little better to do want to criticize a really decent
guy all the while Deanís many former customers remain silent and
unsupportive. Well, not this one & I enjoy reading his threads & posts.

As far as Iím concerned, the Az community is better off because of people
like Dean Campbell and his long history & vast experience with pool, cues,
cue-makers, leather craftsmen, pool table restoration.....the list seems endless.


Matt B.
Well the Potter need timeline is definitely in question here.

Maybe Dean would like to come forward and disclose how much money he paid Jack Potter to use his name?


Visit my historic cues site:
www.palmercollector.com
  
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04-11-2020, 06:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
Way to go Cocobolo Cowboy.......I overlooked your post and it is great to see one of Deanís customers
stand tall against the mob reactions. To each their own but ad hominem attacks are juvenile & verboten.

Actually to make it as clear as Gin, I have both been customer of Deans, and also seller to Dean. As both buyer, and seller both parties were happy with mutual transactions.

Hope you get my point better now, as I want to clearify my experience. That is all I was talking my opinion based upon my experience!


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HawaiianEye
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04-11-2020, 08:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinacria View Post
I bet they could make a southwest clone, and they would play like a southwest
My cue plays better than any Southwest I've ever tried.

Southwest cues are quality cues, but I don't see anything special about them.

If anybody has played pool long enough and tried a lot of cues, they would know that big price, big name doesn't necessarily mean the cue will play better than the one you got for a couple hundred, or even less. As long as cues are made solid, with good woods, ferrules, and tips they should all play good for SOMEBODY.

Have two makers make the SAME Merry Widow-type of cues with exactly the same materials from the same sources and see which one plays better

I'll just throw two names out at random. Let's say, Thomas Wayne and Josey.

If people didn't know the makers and were given both cues to play a bit with, which cue would they say played better?

Then, have a third maker...say Joey, be given the cues, without knowing the makers, and tell him to make them play better, doing whatever he wanted, and then give the cues back to the SAME players and ask them did they play BETTER the first time or the SECOND time.

What would the answer be and would anybody be "right" when they picked a cue and said it was the "best player"?


The Hustler

Such a man spends all his life playing every day for small stakes. Give him every morning the money that he may gain during the day, on condition that he does not play-you will make him unhappy. It will perhaps be said what he seeks is the amusement of play, not gain. Let him play then for nothing, he will lose interest and be wearied. ***Blaise Pascal***

Last edited by HawaiianEye; 04-11-2020 at 08:52 PM.
  
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04-11-2020, 09:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
My cue plays better than any Southwest I've ever tried.

Southwest cues are quality cues, but I don't see anything special about them.

If anybody has played pool long enough and tried a lot of cues, they would know that big price, big name doesn't necessarily mean the cue will play better than the one you got for a couple hundred, or even less. As long as cues are made solid, with good woods, ferrules, and tips they should all play good for SOMEBODY.

Have two makers make the SAME Merry Widow-type of cues with exactly the same materials from the same sources and see which one plays better

I'll just throw two names out at random. Let's say, Thomas Wayne and Josey.

If people didn't know the makers and were given both cues to play a bit with, which cue would they say played better?

Then, have a third maker...say Joey, be given the cues, without knowing the makers, and tell him to make them play better, doing whatever he wanted, and then give the cues back to the SAME players and ask them did they play BETTER the first time or the SECOND time.

What would the answer be and would anybody be "right" when they picked a cue and said it was the "best player"?
Are you a gymnast? The backflips to justify the crazy markup is ridiculous. I had one in my hands. Hit like an 80s McDermott. Nothing mind-blowing and nothing terrible, in terms of the hit.

The build quality and carney marketing is a different story.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafongoul View Post
This may sound smug on my part
  
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04-11-2020, 09:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ideologist View Post
Hit like an 80s McDermott. Nothing mind-blowing and nothing terrible, in terms of the hit.
What's wrong with an 80s McDermott "hit"?

I have a McDermott C-14 that I've been offered more than five times what I paid for it. They weren't offering me that much money for the "name", they wanted it for the way it "hit".

I alsp have THE McDermott cue that was used by CJ to win the "Million Dollar Challenge Tournament" and he seemed to do alright with the "hit"...he managed to beat Earl in the finals with it.

Nobody is flipping here, except some of you guys flipping out about a cue that you don't even have.


The Hustler

Such a man spends all his life playing every day for small stakes. Give him every morning the money that he may gain during the day, on condition that he does not play-you will make him unhappy. It will perhaps be said what he seeks is the amusement of play, not gain. Let him play then for nothing, he will lose interest and be wearied. ***Blaise Pascal***
  
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04-11-2020, 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinacria View Post
whats a jackot cue and where is this coming from? any pics of the cues?
I found a jackpot cue on google, plain jane, is that it?
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showt...=504540&page=2

edit: ok, I did some research, and it seems to me that a snake salesman took a dozen people for a ride. $100 cue and sold it for $500, made a quick $5K profit on what others saw as a guy with a 100% itrader score. he ruined his rep and killed his business for a quick profit. schmelke is apparently a better cue maker than the reputation they have as a cheap alternative for a custom. people thought they had a better product simply from a name change. all parties involved are dumb, the salesman and the buyer. the only person to come out ahead is schmelke, as they make a pretty good cue after all, if they put a different name on it the cue gets better, lol. I bet they could make a southwest clone, and they would play like a southwest
How much did you pay for this cue you have up on ebay for $350 as a "buy it now" price? Should it be lower? You got the bid starting price at $250.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schmelke-Cu...QAAOSw4ulehU7-


The Hustler

Such a man spends all his life playing every day for small stakes. Give him every morning the money that he may gain during the day, on condition that he does not play-you will make him unhappy. It will perhaps be said what he seeks is the amusement of play, not gain. Let him play then for nothing, he will lose interest and be wearied. ***Blaise Pascal***
  
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Snooker Theory
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04-12-2020, 01:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CocoboloCowboy View Post
Well most people, like 100% are happy dealing with DEAN.
Well if you look at this members Itrader, he has 33 transactions and 100% positive reviews.
https://forums.azbilliards.com/itrader.php?u=52837

But there are mulitple threads about that same guy ripping people off, look at what Jim (Nsafellow) said in this thread dedicated to warning people about the guy.
Bad Deal with engineman76/William Crosby



Why do you think that is, that someone who has screwed people on AZ still has a 100% positive itrader??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????









It's because people will refrain from giving negative feedback to someone, so the person doesnt leave negative feedback in return, after finding out that's how some people do business on here the whole itrader thing doesn't mean that much to me.

Can you give any other reason why, of course not.
  
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