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TATE
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05-25-2020, 11:22 PM

You need to resize them with software, about 1000 pixels wide. I scrolled so far right I had to leave the room.


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05-26-2020, 05:13 AM

I watched The Hustler again yesterday. In watching it before, I had not noticed the scene early in the movie showing the case. After examining the early scene, I agree with you.

I am not trying to prove any particular conclusion. I am simply trying to gather and evalutate all possible evidence and arrive at the most logically correct conclusion. To this end, I appreciate everyone's contributions.

(One problem here is that Brunswick's catalog data has been deemed "unreliable". When this occurs, the question becomes what information from Brunswick can one use and what information can one not use -- one cannot simply pick or choose based upon likes or dislikes.)

I have considered whether or not my case is a "gun" or "fishing" case. With the 2/3 capacity specification for 1950 and all subsequent years, it seems that my case would have to be a 1949 model because it certainly not a 2/3. (However, is Brunswick's 2/3 specification to be relied upon in the first place?)

One unavoidable fact is that I found a case and a cue stick: a 56 3/8 inch long, 18 ounce, Brunswick Willie Hoppe Professional cue stick (which, if we could rely on Brunswick's catalog specifications, means the cue is a 1948 or early 1949 model). Does the fact that a possible 1949 case was found with a possible 1948 or early 1949 cue mean anything? Was this mere coincidence?

At this point, I really wish someone would come forward with a case to use for comparison. Surely, my case is not the only one out there.


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05-26-2020, 05:19 AM

Sorry about all of the oversized pictures. I am swearing off posting pictures until I can understand what I am doing wrong and how to do it right. When you say pixels and software, it makes me sweat.


"It's all in the wrist, with a deck or a cue"
Epitaph of Frankie Machine

"Yet once you've come to be part of this particular patch, you'll never love another.
Like loving a woman with a broken nose, you may well find lovelier lovelies.
But never a lovely so real."
Nelson Algren, Chicago: City on the Make
  
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05-26-2020, 01:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biloxi Boy View Post
Sorry about all of the oversized pictures. I am swearing off posting pictures until I can understand what I am doing wrong and how to do it right. When you say pixels and software, it makes me sweat.
My solution is a free screen-grabber program called "Cropper". Something similar may be on your system already. It grabs any part of my screen I select into an image file. I don't have to use any picture editing software -- I just get the image to be a reasonable size on my screen.

Cropper puts all the images I grab into its own folder so I can go back for any image I've already posted.

Here is an image I grabbed off a newspaper's web page three years ago for a discussion of the "brain wash" drill and the competition Boys Clubs used to run.

Name:  LouisvilleCourierJournal_Mar4_1951.jpg
Views: 99
Size:  51.4 KB


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05-26-2020, 03:05 PM

About your cues in the case...

You showed two cues butt caps up...

Turn one, butt cap down. You'll notice due to the taper, you have more movement at the top. You'll have about a 1 1/4 and a 27/32 (joint) at the top. I suspect you may get two shafts in-between the center gap on each side, maybe 3.

I could be wrong, I do not have one of those cases here, but just sketching it out on paper it seems plausible.

Joe


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05-26-2020, 04:57 PM

Good call. One butt up/One butt down does allow two shafts to fit all the way in without resistance, but a third shaft will not go without force and possible damage.

I would not have thought of this approach. I hope the cases were shipped with instructions or diagrams for folks like me. Plus, I used modern cues. Since we are in a game of fractions of inches, I had to consider whether the "fat butts" of the 1950's and accompanying fatter shafts would affected the outcome. I think two fatter butts and two fatter shafts would still make it in, but the difference would definitely show up when attempting to case a third, fatter shaft.

Meanwhile, I have written Brunswick, A E Schmidt, plus several leather stamping companies, leather case repairers, etc. (Repairers take gun cases similar in the condition to the Mosconi Case, above, and make them look like new. Amazing.)

Hopefully, someone will help.


"It's all in the wrist, with a deck or a cue"
Epitaph of Frankie Machine

"Yet once you've come to be part of this particular patch, you'll never love another.
Like loving a woman with a broken nose, you may well find lovelier lovelies.
But never a lovely so real."
Nelson Algren, Chicago: City on the Make
  
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05-26-2020, 05:41 PM

I have been putting many cues in many cases for a long time. It is possible that its simply like a rubiks cube. Your two shafts may fit joint down and the third might fit. You may have to play around with the configuration.

The butts may have been slightly bigger but the joints tended to be slightly smaller. I have had many older cues that were around .800 or less. Down from todays .840 more or less standard.

Anyways its like a Fellini.. you get a ton of chalk if you put tips down. If you go tips up, it accomplishes two things.. no chalk in base of case and the butt goes in last, comes out first. Which I prefer.

Joe



Quote:
Originally Posted by Biloxi Boy View Post
Good call. One butt up/One butt down does allow two shafts to fit all the way in without resistance, but a third shaft will not go without force and possible damage.

I would not have thought of this approach. I hope the cases were shipped with instructions or diagrams for folks like me. Plus, I used modern cues. Since we are in a game of fractions of inches, I had to consider whether the "fat butts" of the 1950's and accompanying fatter shafts would affected the outcome. I think two fatter butts and two fatter shafts would still make it in, but the difference would definitely show up when attempting to case a third, fatter shaft.

Meanwhile, I have written Brunswick, A E Schmidt, plus several leather stamping companies, leather case repairers, etc. (Repairers take gun cases similar in the condition to the Mosconi Case, above, and make them look like new. Amazing.)

Hopefully, someone will help.


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05-30-2020, 10:43 AM

One burning question I have is how was it initially determined that we cannot rely on Brunswick data?

For example, according to the Brunswick catalogs that I have seen, the Willie Hoppe Professional was offered in weights of 20, 21, and 22 from 1941 to 1947 and from 1948 on 18 and 19 ounce weights were also offered. Can one depend upon this information and be assured that 18 and 19 ounce Professionals can only date from 1948 or later?


"It's all in the wrist, with a deck or a cue"
Epitaph of Frankie Machine

"Yet once you've come to be part of this particular patch, you'll never love another.
Like loving a woman with a broken nose, you may well find lovelier lovelies.
But never a lovely so real."
Nelson Algren, Chicago: City on the Make

Last edited by Biloxi Boy; 05-30-2020 at 10:48 AM. Reason: typo and clarity
  
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06-04-2020, 09:27 PM

You cannot read this stuff too many times. It may be “all about the leather”.

Brunswick's catalog says its Expert Case is “made of top grain mahogany colored cowhide”.

A. E. Schmidt's catalog says its Classic Case is “made from top grain horsehide leather dyed to a handsome brown finish”.

Without arguing colors or resorting to Billiards CSI for genetic analysis, does anyone know if cow leather and horse leather are readily distinguishable. If so, how?


"It's all in the wrist, with a deck or a cue"
Epitaph of Frankie Machine

"Yet once you've come to be part of this particular patch, you'll never love another.
Like loving a woman with a broken nose, you may well find lovelier lovelies.
But never a lovely so real."
Nelson Algren, Chicago: City on the Make
  
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