Ripped off?

Damn. Sorry to hear.

I know the used market is real shady in regards to description. Pricing? That's another story. I've seen some cues here that have dings and dents on the cue but it shows on the picture but the seller doesn't describe it on his listing. Your incident reminds me of those transactions, where there are pictures and you can see or not see for yourself and once you buy they can say you saw the pictures.This is why I don't buy used. You may be stuck with it.

Did you get pictures? He probably sold it in good faith but people's description of cues vary. He thinks its mint and you think its fair condition.

nick serdula said:

I bought a cue for 2K. I told the seller it was pretty but I would look at the next day. The next day I tell the seller the cue is not right. The third day I tell him I am sending your cue back. He says he refuses to refund my money. Has he committed fraud by selling me a cue that is not as described and refusing to refund my money? Telling me that is what he paid and tough sh&t.

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How is the cue “not as described”? New from maker or second hand ‘new’? Realize that the courts are not on your side here.

What's not right? That really would be the crux of the argument.

He should refund it, but he's not a business and he's not a retail store.

Ripped Off?

You waited 3 days to tell the seller you wanted to return it. The seller may think its buyers remorse. Seems to me you should of made up your mind in the first day you received it although its sounds like it wouldn't of matter in this case anyway. Sorry to hear you ended up with a cue you didn't want.

EXACTLY the reason I buy from local sellers (cue in hand before I pay) .....or from a production company/dealer.

I've NEVER had an issue that wasn't solved with the above ways of purchasing.

In the end, it's just a part of buying used equipment from individuals.

Jeff

So Nick gets the cue ( Day 1) and tells the seller it is pretty but he’ll give it a closer examination tomorrow (Day 2).

The next day (Day 2) after examining the cue, Nick informs the seller the cue isn’t right. I am confident he provided details why the cue wasn’t as described.

(Day 3) After considering the cue’s condition and probably what it might need to meet Nick’s standards that are pretty high, Nick informs the seller that he is returning the cue because it is not as the seller described. If it had been paid for using Paypal as a purchase, Nick could open a buyer complaint and the seller would be denied payment until the matter either gets resolved or else the transaction rescinded with a refund coming back to Nick.

Nick is busy and does not just sit at home waiting for a cue to arrive. And when it does, he acknowledged receipt and said he’d check it out tomorrow. Nick did not reveal details of what was wrong with the cue or how the cue was incompatible with the seller’s description that Nick relied upon when he purchased the cue or what it would cost to repair the flaws that he shouldn’t have to repair or pay for.

IMO, Nick Serdula is a stand up guy and if he says the cue ain’t right or the seller exaggerated or incorrectly described the cue, then I tend to side with Nick til his assertion is proven wrong. Obviously, a description of the cue that the seller offered and pictures of what’s wrong would make this easier to understand but for now I am in Nick’s corner unless or until facts suggest otherwise.

Just a question here- I have bought four custom cues from guys here on AZ and no problems. I do notice that sellers here ask for F&F paypal payment or the buyers add a percentage to the agreed upon price. If someone pays F&F; I understand that one cannot dispute a purchase with pay pal. However, one can use a credit card for ANY pay pal payment, and laws will allow one to dispute a payment within 60 days via your credit card, even if you cannot dispute through pay pal because you paid via F&F. So I ask, why would anyone spend $2,000 for any online purchase WITHOUT either paying via regular pay pal with buyer protection and spend the extra % for the fee; OR make sure you have your most trusted credit card as your payment mechanism within your pay pal account?

It is ALWAYS buyer beware, so I think ALWAYS pay with some form of legal protection- either regular pay pal ( even if you absorb the fee) or a credit card backup on your pay pal. Without either; you can get into the situation as the OP describes above- sorry to hear- hope it resolves for you.

mikemosconi said:

Just a question here- I have bought four custom cues from guys here on AZ and no problems. I do notice that sellers here ask for F&F paypal payment or the buyers add a percentage to the agreed upon price. If someone pays F&F; I understand that one cannot dispute a purchase with pay pal. However, one can use a credit card for ANY pay pal payment, and laws will allow one to dispute a payment within 60 days via your credit card, even if you cannot dispute through pay pal because you paid via F&F. So I ask, why would anyone spend $2,000 for any online purchase WITHOUT either paying via regular pay pal with buyer protection and spend the extra % for the fee; OR make sure you have your most trusted credit card as your payment mechanism within your pay pal account?

It is ALWAYS buyer beware, so I think ALWAYS pay with some form of legal protection- either regular pay pal ( even if you absorb the fee) or a credit card backup on your pay pal. Without either; you can get into the situation as the OP describes above- sorry to hear- hope it resolves for you.

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Because people are cheap and don’t want to pay 4% more for whatever they’re buying.

Also, I’ve noticed the prices for used cues, cases, etc that sell on Facebook are often outrageous and barely under retail. So a lot of times it doesn't even make sense to buy if you’re going to add 4% in fees on top of the price.

Just do a CHARGEBACK with you credit card company.

You're welcome.

Scrunge19 said:

Because people are cheap and don’t want to pay 4% more for whatever they’re buying.

Also, I’ve noticed the prices for used cues, cases, etc that sell on Facebook are often outrageous and barely under retail. So a lot of times it doesn't even make sense to buy if you’re going to add 4% in fees on top of the price.

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Sadly that's how the industry works.

Buy new is the way to go unless you have no patience.

he buys and sells cues. does nick give 3 days to think it over.

but those details about returns should be worked out before the sale and how payment is made and delivery. he knows what he is doing so i think he is just venting his own mistake. but knows about challenging the sale.

i would think everyone buying on the net would insist on an email from the seller stating the conditions of the sale with his name and contact info on it.
then if you contest it you have some proof for your claim.

SBC said:

Just do a CHARGEBACK with you credit card company.

You're welcome.

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Is it that simple with transactions of previously owned goods between individuals?

Is second hand merchandise sold as-is unless otherwise stated in policy?

Unless it was fraudulently misrepresented, such as a production cue from Wisconsin being sold as a limited run cue from a Texas custom builder, is difference of opinion on condition something that can be disputed on a chargeback?

nick serdula said:

The cue was described as dead straight. It is a big banana. Bananas! Big banana. Could be worse. A few stick pimps want it.as described. I might loose a couple two-three hundred. I have to ask. The logic here.of the seller you bought just what you wanted to. Forget he lied his azz off about the straight thing. And if you work for a living three days is normal return time period some even as long as 30 days. He agreed all the time . No problem let me know. Then oh your money? I don't have it.

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Who is the seller?

Unfortunately, a dispute concerning straightness in a cue would be almost impossible to uphold with a credit card company or pay pal dispute. It is very subjective , sometimes even among experienced collectors and players. Of course, and this sounds like one of those cases; where there is no doubt to the buyer that the cue is badly warped . However, the folks at the credit card companies can only go by visual facts and print- they just won't know enough about cues to uphold a straightness dispute on a cue.

jimmyco said:

Is it that simple with transactions of previously owned goods between individuals?

Is second hand merchandise sold as-is unless otherwise stated in policy?

Unless it was fraudulently misrepresented, such as a production cue from Wisconsin being sold as a limited run cue from a Texas custom builder, is difference of opinion on condition something that can be disputed on a chargeback?

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That would never happen with the stand up sellers on AZB.
How dare you suggest such a thing.

nick serdula said:

I bought a cue for 2K. I told the seller it was pretty but I would look at the next day. The next day I tell the seller the cue is not right. The third day I tell him I am sending your cue back. He says he refuses to refund my money. Has he committed fraud by selling me a cue that is not as described and refusing to refund my money? Telling me that is what he paid and tough sh&t.

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Well 2K would be something the U.S. Postal Inspection Sevice would be interested in if, the Cue was shipped via USPS. (Postal service)

It's probably a good rule of thumb to know who you're doing business with on here, and second to check their itrader rating and any remarks from people who have done business with this person. People can say anything online and if their word is no good it means nothing.

If I sell anyone a cue on here, it is fully understood they can return it for any reason and get a full refund, with the only caveat being a reasonable length of time, like up to one week. Of all the cues and other billiard merchandise I've sold on here I've had exactly one person who was unhappy with a shaft they got from me. He wanted me to either pay for a replacement shaft or pay him $100, and I was not willing to do either one. I told him he could send the cue (with both shafts) back to me for a full refund. He kept the cue. I've also bought several cues and cases on here over the years and never returned one of them yet.

nick serdula said:

I bought a cue for 2K. I told the seller it was pretty but I would look at the next day. The next day I tell the seller the cue is not right. The third day I tell him I am sending your cue back. He says he refuses to refund my money. Has he committed fraud by selling me a cue that is not as described and refusing to refund my money? Telling me that is what he paid and tough sh&t.

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Yeah, the seller should give you a complete refund, because that money should not be his money until the buyer is 100% satisfied. But I do not know if it is considered fraud, or not. Fraud would be sending someone something that is different then what was advertised. Like if he sent you a cue that was not the same cue that was advertised, or if you sent you a cue that he claimed was made by a certain person, but it was not made by that person. That would be fraud. Opinions on this may differ though, but I do agree that he should refund your money, and not doing so should be a crime.

I just think that Fraud is something that a seller knowingly does, and when it comes to the condition, or the straightness of a cue, then I believe that opinions vary on that. That is why I always like to take a really good video, so that the buyer knows the condition that the cue is in, and how the cue rolls together and apart.

Even if the cue was delivered as advertised though, the buyer still has the right to ask for a full refund, and that money should not belong to the seller, until they know that the buyer is 100% satisfied with their purchase. So, if the seller keeps that money, after knowing that the buyer is unhappy, and refuses to give a refund, then I think that in a way, that is the same as Stealing. I do not know about it being Fraud though.

Just out of curiosity, what are the issues with the cue, that were not advertised by the seller? Is it something that can be repaired, like with a refinish for example? Is the issue repairable, to where it would be worth the $2,000 that you paid?

If that is the case, then maybe you would be willing to accept a partial refund from the seller, for the total costs involved to repair the cue?

If the cue only needs a refinish to be mint, then maybe that can be done for maybe $300 for example, and I imagine the seller would at least be willing to refund $300 from $2,000. Just a thought.