A Friendly Warning to Gamblers From Richie Richardson

watchez · Jan 13, 2015

Why does everyone keep saying the casino is against people gambling --- the casino is against it because the Gambling Commisson which governs the casino could come down on them. It is the Gambling Commission - and I am not sure how it is in Indiana but here in Missouri it is run by the Highway Patrol, is basically a subsidiary of the police department.

Compare it to a bar -- you can drink in a bar but most bars you cannot bring your own liquor inside (I know, I know some restaurants let you bring in a bottle of wine). Again, the bar wants you to drink but they have to follow the liquor control laws.

Fred - I would suggest changing the name of the award to the Louie Roberts Heart Award - given to the player that showed the most heart during the weekend. This way you take the word 'gambling' out of it and aren't rubbing it in anyone's face. You could use this in any press releases, signage, etc. Beyond that, as you and a few others suggested, keep the side shows to a minimum and a hush.

CJ Wiley · Jan 13, 2015

The IRS loves pool tournaments, they look for those that are loudest, or flashiest

bdorman said:
The state of Indiana taxman is more upset about sidebets than the casino is. At least the casino gets room, food and other revenue...but the state (whose take on gambling is enormous) gets nothing.

Yes, that's the real issue.....taxes.

If you win 10k gambling at pool in a federally regulated casino you will owe them 3k. The international players get 30% AUTOMATICALLY taken out of their prize money for "Uncle Sam".

Imagine how much Efren has payed to the US Gov. over the last 20 years of playing tournament events. Now add all the international players together, and you'll see that a lot of the "pool money" goes out of circulation over time in taxes.

When Efren wins 20k in a casino tournament, he's probably going to end up with 14k.

The IRS loves pool tournaments, they look for gamblers that are loudest, or flashiest to follow, and pursue if necessary. I have a friend that used to be an IRS investigator in Miami, and he gave me the whole strategy. They also camp out at strip bars and fine dining restaurants (for drug dealers) and record license plates for further investigation.

It's a tough job, and aren't they all, especially performing this game called pool.

Allen Brown · Jan 14, 2015

Can everybody in the room not "back" the player they want to bet on?

Let's say CJ was playing Jay for $5,000 of his own money. All of the side bets could be added to the total pot. There are $5,000 in side bets......now CJ and Jay are putting up $7,500 a piece and a total pot of $15,000.

CJ loses to Jay 13-2 and Jay gets his $10,000 from the pot. After that Jay just doubles what each person "backed" him with and the only money that changes hands is between Jay and his "backers".

I know it would be a lot to keep up with, but technically there were no side bets taking place. It's just a thought and it might not work. BTW.....GOOD SHOOTING Jay!!

CJ Wiley · Jan 14, 2015

In the state of Texas it's legal to gamble at a "game of skill,".......

GoldenFlash said:
Sounds like you're "with it" in more ways than just pool.
Running that slug in and out for the bent card in monte is tough. Took me almost a hundred hours to gaff it so it could not be seen...even with a slow motion movie camera.
Now, the old reliable Gypsy Switch (ala Massey) takes half that, but knocks them for a loop every time.
I am adding something to the line about not being able to con an honest man, etc.
It should read: "You can't con an honest man, or a teacher, but you can rob a bunch of pool players blind because they think (collectively speaking) that they know everything about everything" :wink:
Cheers...... View attachment 370603

The strongest move is sticking a piece of tape on it at the very beginning. Then at the end of the "deal" it's still a shill.

There's techniques to verbally do this, but I forgot how it's done.

In the state of Texas it's legal to gamble at a "game of skill," however, there can be no side bets or even backers. The REDS tournament was raided in the late 80s because of the side-action, not the players themselves (even though they got hauled in too).

Cornerman · Jan 14, 2015

watchez said:
Why does everyone keep saying the casino is against people gambling --- the casino is against it because the Gambling Commisson which governs the casino could come down on them. It is the Gambling Commission - and I am not sure how it is in Indiana but here in Missouri it is run by the Highway Patrol, is basically a subsidiary of the police department.

Compare it to a bar -- you can drink in a bar but most bars you cannot bring your own liquor inside (I know, I know some restaurants let you bring in a bottle of wine). Again, the bar wants you to drink but they have to follow the liquor control laws.

Fred - I would suggest changing the name of the award to the Louie Roberts Heart Award - given to the player that showed the most heart during the weekend. This way you take the word 'gambling' out of it and aren't rubbing it in anyone's face. You could use this in any press releases, signage, etc. Beyond that, as you and a few others suggested, keep the side shows to a minimum and a hush.

Great post. Great analogy.

You're on the same page as we are. Trying to keep the word "action" out of the name is one of the handful of things we might have to do.

Freddie

Cornerman · Jan 14, 2015

Allen Brown said:
Can everybody in the room not "back" the player they want to bet on?

Let's say CJ was playing Jay for $5,000 of his own money. All of the side bets could be added to the total pot. There are $5,000 in side bets......now CJ and Jay are putting up $7,500 a piece and a total pot of $15,000.

CJ loses to Jay 13-2 and Jay gets his $10,000 from the pot. After that Jay just doubles what each person "backed" him with and the only money that changes hands is between Jay and his "backers".

I know it would be a lot to keep up with, but technically there were no side bets taking place. It's just a thought and it might not work. BTW.....GOOD SHOOTING Jay!!

Not to sound like I'm poo poo'ing your idea, but...You're suggesting adding the rail into the middle. And someone has to manage that on payoff, without looking like just the standard side rail sideshow.

Current matchups already pool corporations in the middle. That should be okay, as long as it's not a spectacle. But that's a far cry from pooling the rail into the middle. That would be a nightmare.

Allen Brown · Jan 14, 2015

Cornerman said:
Not to sound like I'm poo poo'ing your idea, but...You're suggesting adding the rail into the middle. And someone has to manage that on payoff, without looking like just the standard side rail sideshow.

Current matchups already pool corporations in the middle. That should be okay, as long as it's not a spectacle. But that's a far cry from pooling the rail into the middle. That would be a nightmare.

I figured it would be a nightmare, but I was just thinking of a way for the casino people to not see money being exchanged by people on the rail. No harm no foul.

Eric. · Jan 14, 2015

Cornerman said:
Great post. Great analogy.

You're on the same page as we are. Trying to keep the word "action" out of the name is one of the handful of things we might have to do.

Freddie

why over think it?

If its called the "Louis Roberts Action & Entertainment Award", why not shorten it to the Louis Roberts Entertainment award? Since "entertainment" is a broad term, with many interpretations, there shouldnt be any issues.

Eric

Kickin' Chicken · Jan 14, 2015

Eric. said:
why over think it?

If its called the "Louis Roberts Action & Entertainment Award", why not shorten it to the Louis Roberts Entertainment award? Since "entertainment" is a broad term, with many interpretations, there shouldnt be any issues.

Eric

this name sounds pretty good to me.

GoldenFlash · Jan 14, 2015

jay helfert said:
It is ironic that they are against gambling in a casino where all suckers are welcomed with open arms (I give you the slot machines! :wink. But that is how the world works today, everybody wants a piece of the action and the bureaucrats (Gambling Commission) love to throw their weight around.
I miss the old Vegas where the big bosses (owners of the casinos) would come to the pool tournament and hang out with the players. The biggest gamblers were always favored in the casinos back then. The bigger the game the more they liked it. Of course they often wanted some juice as well when the action was over. You make a big score, you slip them 10%. That's how it was a long time ago. We got comped for meals, our rooms and just about anything when we were there.
All that said, you just have to keep your mouth shut when making a side bet. Do it privately, like I have many times. I don't need to announce that I want a bet. First I ask around who likes the other guy and I go over and have a private conversation with him. No one ever knows we're betting the match and we settle up afterwards. I guess I've done that 100 times at DCC and no one has said Boo to me yet. A word to the wise is all.
I did bet as much as $5,000 on a match at the old Executive but the biggest bet I've ever made at the casino is 1K. The only game I will play in their casino is poker. Everything else is a trap!

Well stated and right on the money!
Brings back memories of the old Stardust Tournaments pool action out there when Danny Jones, Shorty, and Eddie Kelly were drilling almost anyone in sight.
ALL casino games are a trap. But pool players will line up at the dice tables to make that silly "Field Bet".......(because there are more numbers to win on......:grin

Ktown D · Jan 14, 2015

Eric. said:
why over think it?

If its called the "Louis Roberts Action & Entertainment Award", why not shorten it to the Louis Roberts Entertainment award? Since "entertainment" is a broad term, with many interpretations, there shouldnt be any issues.

Eric

That is why you get paid the big bucks Eric.....always using the ol' noodle.

Cashplayer · Jan 14, 2015

Perhaps all the hype about the American Road Hustler drew a little attention. Maybe the Gaming Comission wanted to get on the old interweb busting Scooter.

Allen Brown · Jan 14, 2015

Cashplayer said:
Perhaps all the hype about the American Road Hustler drew a little attention. Maybe the Gaming Comission wanted to get on the old interweb busting Scooter.

I was thinking that too.....especially when it was all about him working his way to DCC.

realkingcobra · Jan 14, 2015

Celtic said:
And given that the casino might want to think twice before they act obnoxious enough towards the DCC that the event moves to a non-casino convention facility.

The DCC is an absolute gift to the casino, a huge group of degenerate gamblers coming from all over the world into one place to play in pool tournaments, where most people get knocked out, and then gamble in pool AND the casino until 90%+ of the people leave with 20% of the money they entered with and the bulk of that money they lost is now in the count room of the casino.

A HUGE number of people who win a big action match will invariably lose some of that back to the casino, same thing for the tournaments and the high finishers, many a person will try to double or triple their winnings at the casino to make up for a missed 9-ball and end up losing it all.

They might want to limit their cracking down on the action, if they end up pissing the DCC off enough that the lose the event they will feel pretty f'ing stupid at chasing away their piece of that action...

The only problem with that thought process is that when the state gaming commission levies a fine for illegal gambling, it's against the casino, not the DCC. When that happens, it can and will, what casino is going to jump up and say "hold your next DCC in our casino next year"

There's not a lot of options for Greg to choose from when it comes to running an event like the DCC.

Eric. · Jan 14, 2015

Ktown D said:
That is why you get paid the big bucks Eric.....always using the ol' noodle.

You're in for half, man.

Eric

ShootingArts · Jan 14, 2015

the casinos call the shots

We were warned in my state before we let casinos in. Being late to the trough, other states had told us what to expect. The casinos call the shots including to the gambling commission for the most part. In Louisiana, they have shut down bingo games for a benefit with a couple dozen people playing, small bar poker tournaments, any kind of small time gambling that you can think of that gets any attention. Surprised that they haven't landed on pool. They think every dime gambled should be gambled with them and they try to squeeze anything else resembling gambling out!

Without naming names, some tournaments and the gambling at them are getting too high profile in Louisiana, I expect them to get shut down before too long. Note that even the raffles on here were shut down when they came to the AG's attention.

The states and the casinos are strictly against any form of gambling, unless they get their cut!

Hu

Cornerman · Jan 14, 2015

Eric. said:
why over think it?

If its called the "Louis Roberts Action & Entertainment Award", why not shorten it to the Louis Roberts Entertainment award? Since "entertainment" is a broad term, with many interpretations, there shouldnt be any issues.

Eric

Yup, as noted, keeping the word "Action" out of the name of the award is something we might have to do. We came up with two or three obvious possibilities. Maybe a poll is in order. We'll take the results under advisement.

Louie Roberts Award (quite simple - kinda like the Heisman Trophy)
Louie Roberts AE Award (stands for Aardvark Engineering, since it's available....)
Louie Roberts Entertainment Award (Eric.)
Louie Roberts Heart Award (Watchez)
The Louie (like the Oscars or the Tony Award )

But renaming the award is probably the simplest of the things that needs to happen.

Freddie

rhatten · Jan 14, 2015

Cornerman said:
Yup, as noted, keeping the word "Action" out of the name of the award is something we might have to do. We came up with two or three obvious possibilities. Maybe a poll is in order. We'll take the results under advisement.

Louie Roberts Award (quite simple - kinda like the Heisman Trophy)

Louie Roberts AE Award (stands for Aardvark Engineering, since it's available....)

Louie Roberts Entertainment Award (Eric.)

Louie Roberts Heart Award (Watchez)

The Louie (like the Oscars or the Tony Award )

But renaming the award is probably the simplest of the things that needs to happen.

Freddie

Those are some great ideas...:thumbup:

Kickin' Chicken · Jan 14, 2015

The Barkie lol & j/k

Actually, I do like the Louie Roberts Entertainment Award

that one has a good ring to it, imo

best,
brian kc

jojopiff · Jan 14, 2015

Cornerman said:
Yup, as noted, keeping the word "Action" out of the name of the award is something we might have to do. We came up with two or three obvious possibilities. Maybe a poll is in order. We'll take the results under advisement.

Louie Roberts Award (quite simple - kinda like the Heisman Trophy)

Louie Roberts AE Award (stands for Aardvark Engineering, since it's available....)

Louie Roberts Entertainment Award (Eric.)

Louie Roberts Heart Award (Watchez)

The Louie (like the Oscars or the Tony Award )

But renaming the award is probably the simplest of the things that needs to happen.

Freddie

"The Louie" is great. Short and rolls right off the tongue.

A Friendly Warning to Gamblers From Richie Richardson

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