Should women be allowed to compete in US Open 9 Ball Championship?

Roadie · Oct 30, 2009

markgw said:
Can the men play on their tour?

Is Great White allowed to go and compete in a high school talent show?

Or to put in another way, if there were a local Battle of the Bands with say $10,000 first place money and it was open to only Los Angeles bands who didn't have a recording contract would you expect to be allowed to compete?

I mean most of the comment here agree that the women are inferior to the men and that they wouldn't have any chance to win. So if this is true why do you and others insist that the BEST players in the world be allowed to go and "rob" them in order for them to be allowed to "donate" to the MEN.

Sounds like people expect the women to get robbed twice to be treated equally. It's a farce that a mentally handicapped wheelchair bound paraplegic would be allowed to play in the US Open as long as he is male but no woman is allowed simply because she is female.

8ballchump · Oct 30, 2009

I'm not taking one side or the other.....I'm just saying that I really miss the days when the women played alongside the men - in a separate event - at the US Open (and most other tournaments as well). I really miss those days and truly see it as a "knock" on the sport that we don't have that anymore. I think it would benefit all of us to have that available again and be able to market ALL of the players . . . . .

Can't we all just have a hug? :smile:

Tammie Jones

JoeyA · Oct 31, 2009

Roadie said:
Mr. Aguzin,

What Mr. Behrman posted isn't showing an open mind. It is a nonsense argument.

First the WPBA doesn't speak for all women pool players in the world. What about all the great female talent that exists which are NOT associated with the WPBA? Doesn't it seem a little far fetched to exclude all women simply because of what the WPBA does?

Secondly Mr. Behrman already allows players to play which normally play in their own closed tournaments. Any male wheelchair player can play in the US Open and no able bodied person can play in the the WheelChair player's US Open.

Furthermore any APA player or C-class player who is a male can play in the US Open but the top ranked professionals are not allowed in their events.

The BCA has a list of grandmaster players who cannot play in their open divisions. Yet any player who happens to be a male can play in the US Open.

So it's not a tit-for-tat you allow our players to play and we will allow yours type of situation. Frankly I am disappointed that so well a respected tournament promoter would make that argument.

In my opinion this is purely a sexist situation. If Mr. Behrman is sincere then he should make an immediate decision to allow all non-WPBA players to play.

Otherwise he is discriminating against women simply and totally based on their gender and making the WPBA to be the scapegoat for his decision to discriminate. Furthermore he should be well aware that the WPBA only has the right to act on behalf of their members only, not to speak for women players worldwide.

Mr. Aguzin, you were recently involved in the Galveston event. Would you have supported a completely open event that mixed pros and rank amateurs as a way to run that event? In other words would you have expected the amateurs to show up in droves to donate money to the professionals? If you answer is that you support having class divisions then you also support the idea of the women being allowed to have their own class tournaments while also being allowed to "donate" to the events in which the upper class players are playing in.

In boxing and wrestling and other sports which do not require a qualification to participate athletes are allowed to compete in a higher class but higher class athletes are not allowed to go and compete in lower class tournaments.

Of course Mr. Behrman is correct that sports such as Tennis have separate divisions. This is simply because in that type of sport women are physically unable to compete with the men. In pool however the only thing holding women back is men who have the same attitude as Mr. Behrman. He is in the position to allow any woman the opportunity to attempt to compete alongside the men and yet he refuses to do so.

Is Kevin Trudeau a better man than Barry Behrman? After all Trudeau did allow women to compete with the men with the caveat that after year one they would have had to earn the right to stay on tour. As long as Mr. Behrman persists in calling his event the US Open then he should be the one who takes the first step and makes it truly OPEN. Then if the WPBA does not allow their players to play then it's them that are holding women back and not Mr. Behrman.

Roadie,
My first position is that of a businessman. Barry Behrman has earned the right to do with HIS tournament what he wills. Barry is a unique individual who has earned the right to do as he pleases with the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship................ And no one has the right to "force" him to change his mind. Without this tournament (as it is now and as it has been in the past) pool would be the less for it.

Personally, I like to see the lesser player to have the opportunity to play in higher events but I do not support the better player playing in lower skilled events or tournaments no matter what their sex. Even then in some high level tournaments, many amateurs are not allowed to play in the events no matter how fat their bank roll.

Barry has earned the right to call HIS TOURNAMENT what he wants and you nor anyone else has the right to tell him what he should do.
All of this posturing is kind of fun for discussion but no one and I really mean NO ONE has the right to tell Barry Behrman what he should or should not do.

I think some of the men professional pool players would take offense at allowing the women to play in this tournament. Others would welcome the competition. But you see, it isn't the players' tournament, it's not your tournament, it's Barry's tournament and what Barry wants, Barry gets.

JoeyA

corvette1340 · Oct 31, 2009

For those lobbying for Women to be included and telling Mr. Behrman how to run and who to include in "his" tournament that he gets sponsor money and added money for, I suggest you get your own tourney and put up your own added monies. That way you can invite whomever the hell you wish.

pocketspeed · Oct 31, 2009

vette i usually agree with you but not this time (i know not that you care).
yes he runs the tournament its "his" tournament but if the sport is going to reach out to fans and increase the fan base (the only way for the sport to grow) then he should listen to public opinion. if the public (ie fan base) would like to see women play in the us open (semi open) then he should consider it. all sports are after all entertainment. promoters should be responsive to the "entertainees".

brian

Snapshot9 · Oct 31, 2009

Us open

At some time after you create something and it grows, it ceases to be yours and becomes public. Barry should be big enough to recognize that. He has put in a lot of hard work to get it to this point, but it has become every American Poolplayer's favorite tournament to watch and/or play in.

Women's events should stay women's events, those are spring board events for the women to get better. The men should be big enough to allow women to compete in their Open events as a test of the best .... period.

Heck, I played 3 women last night in a weekly tournament and beat all 3, but they were good sports, and interested in learning more. We had 20 players in the tournament. One of the women is pretty darn good, and I think would have the talent to become a pro is she would focus on it.
At some point, you quit thinking men or women player, and you are just a 'Poolplayer', and you want to become the best 'Poolplayer' you can be.
I say, let the girls learn that lesson for themselves, and allow them in Open events everywhere. Open competition is the best ... just like a open market system is the best.

Fatboy · Oct 31, 2009

First off its great to see Barry here!!!!

Second, he has created the Crown Jewel of pool tournments in America. And it has stood the test of time, thats even more impressive.

However I disagree with him on one fact. The girls have a Tour that in made up of many events/year. And thats their thing. Barry has a tournment which is a different thing. If Barry had a tour then banning the girls would be logical to me. The tours should be seperate sexes for many reasons.

But to ban the girls fron his tournment because of a tour the girls put together-where men arnt allowed to play. Dosent make sence. its apples and oranges.

I feel the US Open would be even a more presitigois event if the girls were alowed in it, It would be better. And let the girls have a tour, that has no impact on Barrys tournment. I think Barry is leaving some $$$ on the table here, if he allowed the girls he would have a full field, more gate$$$, and perhaps ESPN might get interested. And probably other things, just haveing Jeanette there would sell a bigger gate.

He is not maximizing his full potential by letting only the men play. He would make more $$$ and have a larger event-bottom line. As a successful biz man, aside from pool, its the best possible business decision he could make.

Majic · Oct 31, 2009

Tradition !!!

There is a lot to be said for tradition and why it should be carried on with both the men and women US Open Nine Ball Tournaments. Perhaps a new tournamnet such as the US Open Ten Ball Tournament is the place start a coed format and move forward from there. I am sure you would agree that starting is more acceptable than changing.

dreco · Oct 31, 2009

I think if a tournament like the US Open featured both sexes it could possibly be a good thing for growing the money and coverage of pool. There are no major sports where men and women compete and that probably would boost interest. Outside of the break, where men on average are stronger, there are no real reasons why there should be a divide. A Mika Immonen/Kelly Fisher final probably gets a lot more attention, in my opinion.

corvette1340 · Oct 31, 2009

dreco said:
I think if a tournament like the US Open featured both sexes it could possibly be a good thing for growing the money and coverage of pool. There are no major sports where men and women compete and that probably would boost interest. Outside of the break, where men on average are stronger, there are no real reasons why there should be a divide. A Mika Immonen/Kelly Fisher final probably gets a lot more attention, in my opinion.

yeah, you're right, it would get more much attention because it would mean the world is coming to an end or that we have entered the Twighlight Zone. No way that Kelly could ever make the final of the men's US Open.

Roadie · Oct 31, 2009

JoeyA said:
Roadie,
My first position is that of a businessman. Barry Behrman has earned the right to do with HIS tournament what he wills. Barry is a unique individual who has earned the right to do as he pleases with the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship................ And no one has the right to "force" him to change his mind. Without this tournament (as it is now and as it has been in the past) pool would be the less for it.

Personally, I like to see the lesser player to have the opportunity to play in higher events but I do not support the better player playing in lower skilled events or tournaments no matter what their sex. Even then in some high level tournaments, many amateurs are not allowed to play in the events no matter how fat their bank roll.

Barry has earned the right to call HIS TOURNAMENT what he wants and you nor anyone else has the right to tell him what he should do.
All of this posturing is kind of fun for discussion but no one and I really mean NO ONE has the right to tell Barry Behrman what he should or should not do.

I think some of the men professional pool players would take offense at allowing the women to play in this tournament. Others would welcome the competition. But you see, it isn't the players' tournament, it's not your tournament, it's Barry's tournament and what Barry wants, Barry gets.

JoeyA

Of course. Mr. Behrman can do whatever he wants with his event within the tenants of the prevailing laws on the subject. This is merely a discussion on what some of us would like to see at an event billed as the US Open.

It's obvious that telling me or anyone else to host our own event is not beneficial to the discussion. The reality is that if someone were to offer a competing event with more money and a format that the players like better then Mr. Behrman's event would suffer and possibly die if that other event were to be consistently produced. So the option of running a competing event is completely on the table at all times and those that advocate this option may someday see it if Mr. Behrman does not decide that what he wants is to be a part of modern America instead of being stuck in the 70s.

branpureza · Oct 31, 2009

Roadie said:
...if Mr. Behrman does not decide that what he wants is to be a part of modern America instead of being stuck in the 70s.

Stuck in the 70's?

In what other professional sports do the women compete with the men?

I guess tennis, baseball, basketball, and even darts, ping pong, and bowling are all stuck in the 70's as well...

corvette1340 · Oct 31, 2009

branpureza said:
Stuck in the 70's?

In what other professional sports do the women compete with the men?

I guess tennis, baseball, basketball, and even darts, ping pong, and bowling are all stuck in the 70's as well...

continued.......football, golf, soccer, swimming, diving, cycling, weightlifting, wrestling, boxing.........

The only thing I can even think of where men DO compete with women is poker and that isn't even a sport.

Ironman317 · Oct 31, 2009

that means that ice skating and dancing with the stars are the only modern day sports...:wink:

AtLarge · Oct 31, 2009

corvette1340 said:
...
The only thing I can even think of where men DO compete with women is poker and that isn't even a sport.

In the 1992 Olympics, skeet shooting was a mixed-gender event. A Chinese woman won the gold medal. The powers-that-be reverted to sex-distinct competitions thereafter.

atthecat · Nov 1, 2009

If we let them play in the US Open 9 Ball Championships then we'll have to let them vote and have equal rights! F#ck that! lol

Yes.

Roadie · Nov 1, 2009

branpureza said:
Stuck in the 70's?

In what other professional sports do the women compete with the men?

I guess tennis, baseball, basketball, and even darts, ping pong, and bowling are all stuck in the 70's as well...

What physical reason is there that women should not compete with men in pool?

I should have said stuck in the 30's.

Remember Rosie the Riveter? Possibly not as it might be before your time if you are young. Rosie was the symbol for women who took over the physically demanding jobs that men and ONLY MEN did prior to World War 2. They not only did these jobs but in many instances they did them better.

It is clear to all of us that there should be gender segregation in some sports because women on average are physically weaker. However I believe that in a sport like billiards the men should welcome the women to compete because their is no physical reason why they can't.

Now, having said that, I also believe that if a woman were good enough to be very competitive on the men's tour then she should probably abdicate her participation on the women's tour.

But this has really nothing to do with the fact that we are speaking of a single event billed as an Open, when it is in fact, not open.

But at least some people on the planet are achieving some sense of enlightenment on the subject:

Mixed gender events to debut at 2010 Youth Games

JimS · Nov 1, 2009

JoeyA said:
Roadie,
My first position is that of a businessman. Barry Behrman has earned the right to do with HIS tournament what he wills. Barry is a unique individual who has earned the right to do as he pleases with the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship................ And no one has the right to "force" him to change his mind. Without this tournament (as it is now and as it has been in the past) pool would be the less for it.

Personally, I like to see the lesser player to have the opportunity to play in higher events but I do not support the better player playing in lower skilled events or tournaments no matter what their sex. Even then in some high level tournaments, many amateurs are not allowed to play in the events no matter how fat their bank roll.

Barry has earned the right to call HIS TOURNAMENT what he wants and you nor anyone else has the right to tell him what he should do.
All of this posturing is kind of fun for discussion but no one and I really mean NO ONE has the right to tell Barry Behrman what he should or should not do.

I think some of the men professional pool players would take offense at allowing the women to play in this tournament. Others would welcome the competition. But you see, it isn't the players' tournament, it's not your tournament, it's Barry's tournament and what Barry wants, Barry gets.

JoeyA

Damm Joey! That was WELL said!!

I'd still like to see it truly Open (although I'd sure hate gettin beat by a girl), but I won't ever "lobby" for any changes. The US Open 9 Ball Championship is Barry's tournament... no argument... You are right... he's EARNED it... in more ways than one.

corvette1340 · Nov 1, 2009

AtLarge said:
In the 1992 Olympics, skeet shooting was a mixed-gender event. A Chinese woman won the gold medal. The powers-that-be reverted to sex-distinct competitions thereafter.

The Men's US Open Skeet Shooting Championship should be opened to include chinese women. WTF are they thinking?

pocketspeed · Nov 1, 2009

corvette1340 said:
The Men's US Open Skeet Shooting Championship should be opened to include chinese women. WTF are they thinking?

vette i'm sorry but youre just wrong here. again the overiding concern here should be what's best for the sport and no matter how you slice it letting women play in the us open will be better for the sport and make the tourney more profitable as a business venture. the poll makes it pretty clear (3:1 margin) that respondents feel that women should be allowed to play. while mr behrman has done an excellent job making the us open into an icon, he should listen to what he is being told by the public. he has the opportunity to take "his" tournament to the next level. hey if dp can give grady an invite to the 14.1 championships, then surely mr behrman can make this fine tourny a true open format.

brian

Should women be allowed to compete in US Open 9 Ball Championship?

Should women be allowed to compete in US Open 9 Ball?

Yes, Open means open. Anyone should be able to play.

No, US Open 9 Ball should be men only.

What is US Open 9 Ball?

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