Did I foul?

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BIH playing the ghost, this was my first shot. I played the CB to break up the cluster, and follow down table for the next ball. I called a foul on myself, the hit felt like I double hit it.

What would you call based on the video? 8 seconds long for short attention spans:)

https://youtu.be/iSHrkwaNd3c
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
What makes you think you fouled?
You hit high ball, whitey jumps a little...
If we were gambling, I would not call a foul.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’d call it on myself - especially if I felt it - and I wouldn’t call it on my opponent. I’d trust him to call it on himself. Or not.

If I was playing the ghost for practice I probably would have kept shooting.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
High ball, whitey slips up a bit.
The cue ball didn’t do anything it wasn’t supposed to.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
High ball, whitey slips up a bit.
The cue ball didn’t do anything it wasn’t supposed to.

That's the rub. The CB did what I wanted it to do. But I think on this particular shot, if I fouled it or not, the CB path would have been the same. Looking at the video, I do think the CB caromed too full into the OB to take the path it did up table. I was going for a thinner hit.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm pretty sure I fouled while at the table. I looked at the video afterwards and could not see the foul. I even played it frame by frame. I posted it on here to hear your thoughts if you could see a foul based on the video/sound alone, pretending I never said it sounded funny live when I played it.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
I would say it all depends on your confidence level in what you felt. It doesn't look like a foul. No ref or opponent or anyone else would or should ever call a foul on this shot.

As for what you felt, perhaps it was indeed the slightest of double hits. Or it could have been your tip bumping the bed of the table (even though you were using follow it still looks like this could possibly have happened here, can't tell). Or it could have been the slightest of miscues (any slight difference in the feel of the hit to what you were expecting could be erroneously perceived as something it wasn't such as a double hit) . On a side note, many/most miscues are actually technically double hits, with second hit typically being against the side of the ferrule or shaft, but the rules state that miscues are not to be treated as double hits even if they technically were (most likely because there just isn't anyway to know for sure). Or it could have just been your imagination. I know I have felt what felt what felt like a mild double hit on shots where it would have been basically impossible, and am guessing that has happened to most of us. Not sure what causes that perception but I speculate than just about anything different about the feel of a hit due to whatever various reason can occasionally be perceived erroneously.

On this particular shot I would say if you are felt reasonably certain you fouled based on what you felt, then call the foul on yourself, but if you just think its possible but are really up in the air about it, you probably shouldn't. Put it another way. I wouldn't let my opponent call a foul on himself for this particular shot based on him saying he felt what could have been a double hit but just isn't sure about it. I would make him shoot again. Now if he said he was pretty certain he felt himself double hit the cue ball then I might (or might not if I felt pretty strongly it couldn't have been a foul) accept his call (with the requisite thanks for the honesty of course).
 

Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
If you fouled....then I'm not seeing it. A lot of things are going on in this short clip including the BADASS music but the shot seems legit.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BIH playing the ghost, this was my first shot. I played the CB to break up the cluster, and follow down table for the next ball. I called a foul on myself, the hit felt like I double hit it.

What would you call based on the video? 8 seconds long for short attention spans:)

https://youtu.be/iSHrkwaNd3c

My first take was you definitely hit the cue ball at the end of your follow-through.

I've witnessed arguments over similar shots. It usually goes to the shooter unless they are honest and very trusting of their opponent's opinion.

I say "good call".

Jeff
 

Master1oo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
you can slow the video down to a .25 and watch it by clicking the cog wheel on the video frame. i slowed it down and watched, its close. you said it felt like a double so you're prob right. hope this helps
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
Looks like a foul, but trust your opponent. The ghost is quite honest. Might even call it transparent.

Good on you for letting your guest choose the music.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No foul...and that's from two Master Instructors and a Senior National Referee.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

BIH playing the ghost, this was my first shot. I played the CB to break up the cluster, and follow down table for the next ball. I called a foul on myself, the hit felt like I double hit it.

What would you call based on the video? 8 seconds long for short attention spans:)

https://youtu.be/iSHrkwaNd3c
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No foul...and that's from two Master Instructors and a Senior National Referee.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Well, I guess I need lessons (or should I say "glasses) worse than I thought. It really, really looked bad to me.

But, I'm no master of anything so, just like John Schmidt's run, I'll take the word of people that are in a better position physically/knowledgeably to make that call.

Jeff
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
High ball, whitey slips up a bit.
The cue ball didn’t do anything it wasn’t supposed to.

I agree. The cue is probably at least 3 times the weight of the cb, which means the cb takes off so fast that with the distance between the balls it's unlikely there is a chance for a double hit. It's odd that a foul was felt though, especially since the cb seemed to move appropriately based on the shot angle.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
To those that have stated they think this is a foul, can you explain what you are basing that conclusion on?

To believe a double hit foul occurred as an observer, one or more of the following things had to have occurred:

1) The speed of the cue ball had to have increased as a result of the second hit
2) The cue ball speed had to have been abnormally fast for the type of hit, one example being where the cue ball follows closely behind the object ball at almost the same speed after a fuller ball hit.
3) The direction of the cue ball had to be abnormal / had to have changed as a result of the second hit.
4) You had to have clearly seen the tip hit the cue ball twice.

You could possibly add a number 5), that you heard a double hit, but I find this one to be less than reliable in the absence of any of the other things above, and even more so when one or more balls are colliding with each other immediately after the cue ball leaves the tip (which is the case here).

The speed of the cue ball does not appear to have increased at any point, the cue ball speed is not abnormally fast for the type of hit, the path and direction and reaction of the cue ball is perfectly normal and never appears to change, you certainly can't see a double hit (even with the luxury of frame by frame analysis), and even though its less than reliable, particularly in this situation, you can't hear anything that sounds like a double hit either. So if you believe this is a double hit, what is making you believe that?
 
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