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10-16-2019, 07:07 PM

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Originally Posted by surffisher2a View Post
I am sure he paid for his time and effort on the first 20 he sold. His material cost are probably like 15 bucks so he should be selling for like 45 - 60 dollars.

Again the value is in whatever someone is willing to pay. If he is selling a lot of them at 135 dollars, good for him, I hope he sells a million of them.
Instead of bird-dogging Gordy, why don't you go into competition against him. It sounds like you have an absolutely charming personality. You're a lead pipe cinch.
  
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10-17-2019, 04:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
Instead of bird-dogging Gordy, why don't you go into competition against him. It sounds like you have an absolutely charming personality. You're a lead pipe cinch.
I love the guy's rationale for pricing. I guess after Chevy/Ford/Dodge get back their money on developing a new truck they're supposed to just drop the price way down. Or maybe once a cuemaker has paid for his equipment investment he should just whack his prices. Or maybe a pool-room owner who has paid off all his tables should just cut his price in half. Look, this is a niche product sold to players of basically a niche sport. I imagine the sales numbers aren't huge. I think the price is more than fair, some are just cheap.
  
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BC21
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Question 10-17-2019, 05:21 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
I love the guy's rationale for pricing. I guess after Chevy/Ford/Dodge get back their money on developing a new truck they're supposed to just drop the price way down. Or maybe once a cuemaker has paid for his equipment investment he should just whack his prices. Or maybe a pool-room owner who has paid off all his tables should just cut his price in half. Look, this is a niche product sold to players of basically a niche sport. I imagine the sales numbers aren't huge. I think the price is more than fair, some are just cheap.
Good point. The market drives the price of products and services, even in our niche sporting world of pool. If something is overpriced, word gets out that it's not worth the cost, either because of quality, craftsmanship, or functionality, and the product doesn't sell very well unless the demand is so great that price doesn't matter. Without an unusually high demand, an overpriced product must be improved or the price must be lowered in order to increase sales.

I try to follow this rule: Beware of products sold privately if the seller doesn't allow product reviews. It could be a great product, but you'll have to buy it and make that determination after you've already spent the money. If it's less than 20 or 30 dollars it's easy to chalk it off and forget about it if you feel it wasn't worth the price. You'll tell your friends it was a waste of 20 bucks. But if you spent 50, 75, or more than 100 then you'll probably want your money back, and you could be out of luck -- no refunds. You'll tell your friends not to buy it and you'll go into forums and tell those people not to buy it, etc.... and eventually the seller will either have to improve the product or lower the price in order to sell it, or spend the next 10 years or more selling to whatever amount of uninformed buyers that happen to come along.


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10-17-2019, 05:24 AM

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Originally Posted by surffisher2a View Post
You can get a plain jane shaft for like 60 bucks.

That set is 110 + 35 to ship. Looks like its just a couple of templates printed on a thin substrate. Looking at the set again, looks like two balls are included, not sure why. I didn't look at the description to see if they are special somehow.

So you can get 2 plain jane shafts for the cost of this. Why are we trying to compare this to the value of a shaft anyway? apples and oranges.

Honestly its the shipping charges that really turned me off. I really hate when sellers grossly inflate shipping costs. They say they will refund if its over, but come on its 2019, just charge the correct price to begin with.
You sound like the type of person who wouldn't buy this even if shipping was included in the 110.

Not that it matters but you have no idea what will be shipped and how from what you said above. I have used this before and can tell you it would cost more to ship than a cue.

Maybe it costs more than 35 to ship sometimes and less sometimes. If it only costs 30 to ship to me, then good for him. I am not worried about $5 like so many pool players are apparently.
  
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10-17-2019, 06:02 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Good point. The market drives the price of products and services, even in our niche sporting world of pool. If something is overpriced, word gets out that it's not worth the cost, either because of quality, craftsmanship, or functionality, and the product doesn't sell very well unless the demand is so great that price doesn't matter. Without an unusually high demand, an overpriced product must be improved or the price must be lowered in order to increase sales.

I try to follow this rule: Beware of products sold privately if the seller doesn't allow product reviews. It could be a great product, but you'll have to buy it and make that determination after you've already spent the money. If it's less than 20 or 30 dollars it's easy to chalk it off and forget about it if you feel it wasn't worth the price. You'll tell your friends it was a waste of 20 bucks. But if you spent 50, 75, or more than 100 then you'll probably want your money back, and you could be out of luck -- no refunds. You'll tell your friends not to buy it and you'll go into forums and tell those people not to buy it, etc.... and eventually the seller will either have to improve the product or lower the price in order to sell it, or spend the next 10 years or more selling to whatever amount of uninformed buyers that happen to come along.
Agree. Heck, on Gordy's site you can watch a bunch of free videos on the product. You can clearly see what it is and how to use it. Don't want one, don't buy it. Save your 'whine' for the lasagna.

Last edited by garczar; 10-17-2019 at 05:11 PM.
  
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What is the value of a product.
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What is the value of a product. - 10-17-2019, 10:34 AM

I went through the Trolling Gauntlet myself. People complained about the high prices back then & some still ask about a discount. My BreakRAK has proven itself, over it's 19 year history.

Gordy spent many hours designing his product, then he set about getting it made, so he could market it. WOOOOOoooo, you wouldn't believe what things cost, when you want 10 of them... So he had a 100 made & got it introduced to the Pool World. All said & done, he had made a few friend & no money. Gordy guarantees his Training Tool & replaces anything that needs replaced. If you use it properly & regularly... you'll get way more than your money's worth. Gordy's customers & students enjoyed the product, learned from it & told their friends... He has succeeded.

A story is told about a little girl who asked the middle aged pool player why he shoots the same shot over & over. His reply was, "because it comes up in every game". Think about that....

Most players learn from the ROTE System, that takes lots of years, for most of us. Definition of ROTE, A memorizing process using routine or repetition, often without full attention or comprehension.

But some of us Players want to shorten the learning curve & we use Training Tools, that over time & many students, have shown to be of Value....




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10-17-2019, 11:53 AM

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Originally Posted by ceebee View Post
.....

Most players learn from the ROTE System, that takes lots of years, for most of us. Definition of ROTE, A memorizing process using routine or repetition, often without full attention or comprehension.

But some of us Players want to shorten the learning curve & we use Training Tools, that over time & many students, have shown to be of Value....

Great post! Too many players are hindered by the false notion that excellence can only be achieved through long hours of grueling practice, the rote method of mindless repetition. The truth is much less grueling. New skills can be learned and refined through short quality practice sessions where goals are set, reached, raised, and then set higher. Couple this with the fact that nowadays there are plenty of good tools available that eliminate much of the trial and error involved with old-school practice methods.

I think Ben Hogan proved years ago that quality of practice is more beneficial than quantity of practice.
Ben, before he was a pro golfer, would hit balls from a shag bag of balls (about 18 balls is all he had in the bag), and he would have a kid stand out in the range to catch/gather the balls. He would hit all 18, trying to land them as close to the kid as possible, which wasn't all that easy to do. Then he'd take a break and sit and think about his results, his accuracy, the feel of the club while he was swinging, etc... And then he'd do it again and compare those results. He'd set a goal to hit 10 or more of the 18 within a couple of steps from the kid. Once he met the goal, his practice session was over. He did not mindlessly hit hundreds or thousands of balls daily until his hands bled and his arms became sore. He just hit a few every day with 100% mindfulness and a goal in mind.


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10-17-2019, 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Great post! Too many players are hindered by the false notion that excellence can only be achieved through long hours of grueling practice, the rote method of mindless repetition. The truth is much less grueling. New skills can be learned and refined through short quality practice sessions where goals are set, reached, raised, and then set higher. Nowadays there are plenty of good tools available that eliminate much of the trial and error involved in old-school practice methods.

I think Ben Hogan proved years ago that quality of practice is more beneficial than quantity of practice.
Ben, before he was a pro golfer, would hit balls from a shag bag of balls (about 18 balls is all he had in the bag), and he would have a kid stand out in the range to catch/gather the balls. He would hit all 18, trying to land them as close to the kid as possible, which wasn't all that easy to do. Then he'd take a break and sit and think about his results, his accuracy, the feel of the club while he was swinging, etc... And then he'd do it again and compare those results. He'd set a goal to hit 10 or more of the 18 within a couple of steps from the kid. Once he met the goal, his practice session was over. He did not mindlessly hit hundreds or thousands of balls daily until his hands bled and his arms became sore. He just a few every day with 100% mindfulness and a goal in mind.
Having been a Assistant Golf Pro, at Colonial Country Club, when Ben Hogan was still playing tournaments, I've watched that scenario take place many times at Shady Grove CC. It was larger than Life, to see the man hit those golf balls, at his caddies' feet, AND to watch the caddie slap the incoming ball, with his towel, to stop them from going too far away..




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10-18-2019, 04:59 AM

for the record
the shipping was less than i was charged and i got an email telling me that and a prompt refund to my paypal account..........
expect delivery soon
  
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10-18-2019, 05:18 AM

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for the record
the shipping was less than i was charged and i got an email telling me that and a prompt refund to my paypal account..........
expect delivery soon
GV's a helluva guy. When he lived in OkCity he'd come to Tulsa for tournaments. Good shooter and teacher. I guess he's back in Iowa now.
  
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Striking Line Aiming product
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Striking Line Aiming product - 10-21-2019, 05:38 AM

If you are truly interested in improving your pool game, Gordon has created a super system!

Of all the keys to success, alignment appears to be paramount! The long striking line offers immediate feedback on why the ball did not go straight into the pocket.

It takes time and practice, but it helped dramatically with aligning body, shoulder, arm, hand in as best possible to optimally position all 'pieces of the puzzle!'

Bottomline: A great investment for those players hoping to get better! Just like building a home .. a weak foundation can result in a problem home.

Well worth the $$$!!!!!!! Thanks, Gordon!

john_oleson@comcast.net
  
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