Can't judge much off the 10 ball ghost video. That was the best breaking table i have ever seen, lol.
Can't find a fargo rate on some of the more famous pool instructors
- Thread starter newcuer
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Can't judge much off the 10 ball ghost video. That was the best breaking table i have ever seen, lol.
Yes he is higher that an apa4, but again, no balls were ever touching after the break. He had zero break out shots and no balls in any trouble. Hats off for running out yes,
So a good break and good runout strategy make a player worse? That doesn't make sense to me.
You watched the ghost set. And these two racks. All good breaks. All clean runouts without having to shoot crazy shots and break out a bunch of balls.
Generally that tells me that someone is a better player.
Check out the rotation run outs. I don’t think anyone’s trying to say he’s a world beater, maybe just miffed on his behalf that someone said a 4 lol.
I love Dr. Dave, but that table is looser than a Vegas hooker.
And you know that how?????
I didn't say anything about being worse. He's higher then a 4. Good nines will beat him,imo. I put around a solid 8 in apa nine ball. He never had to do hardly anything with the cue ball. Can't even tell if he can play 2 rail position from the easily set up run outs after the break. Didn't have to break out any balls.
And you know that how?????
I watched the lesson he gave "Average Pool Player" Rollie at his home. It was Robert Byrne's table, an incredible piece of billiard history to be sure, but the pockets are laughably big, especially with new cloth. That table would be no good for my game. (for a So Cal guy, you know how it is.)
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I too though Dr Dave was at best a C+ player for a few years. But then we started having the Ghost thread here on AZ. He came with many videos with really high scores for about one year when he was really trying to beat the ghost to death. I don't care how big the pockets are on the table, you have to be able to play some to post some of the scores Dr Dave did. After watching a lot of his playing videos, I'd personally put him at a very strong B, possibly an A-. That's about a 600 Fargo by my scale.The players that speed close to me in Philly have high package runs of about 5 racks of 9 ball, and high straight pool runs of about 80-100 range.
JC
Coos Cues
You can judge plenty off of that video. Dave is around 630-640 fargo IMO.
I'm a 600 and can't beat the 10 ball ghost on any table often.
JC
Coos Cues
People said Mosconi wasn't worth a damn too because he never shot a hard shot. :thumbup:
I didn't read the whole thread, but I will comment anyway
All the below is IMO...
1) An instructor has to have a minimum level of skill on the table IN ORDER to have the "knowledge" to instruct a student on how to improve their game. For example, I think its impossible for a banger to watch 100 hrs of top pro players on youtube, and know the correct strategy of how to play position. Without them knowing how the balls react by experiencing it, they just won't have any idea what is going on.
2) It depends on level disparity between coach and student. If the student is a banger, even a C player can help them quite a bit. Help them with a decent bridge, stance, stroke, basic position play, game strategy, etc. Now, one banger instructing anther, we've all seen that when watching from the rail at our local room the teens come in in groups. Its the blind leading the blind. The other end of that, is a C player would not have anything of value to teach a strong B or higher player. There is a chance the C player might have some pet shot he saw in a video or somewhere that the B player simply never did. Like the 2 balls on the spot one pocket shot, for example.
3) That brings us to Fargo. We now have a decent system for rating the actual performance of a player. By all means, if I'm a Fargo 500 C player, there is no way in hell I'd PAY a professional instructor who was also a 500. I wouldn't even pay if he was a 600. I'd want a 650 as a minimum. That's a top local player, who can cash on regional events, beat the 9 ball ghost maybe 1/3 of the time, etc. Now, if there was a 550 or 600 player that I was buddies with in the local room and we were talking shop and going over shots, I'd certainly listen, and see what they might know that I don't. But I wouldn't pay them professionally for that information.
4) If a player was the equivalent of a 650 Fargo as I wrote above, at ANY point in their life, then that qualifies them. If they quit playing 20 years ago to become an instructor, or any other reason, that doesn't matter. They lived pool and played pool at one point at that level, so they KNOW the game. It does not matter their skill now due to old age or lack of interest in playing. They will never forget the shots. If I was looking for a lesson and Danny Deliberto was offering, I'd take it with no doubt in my mind he knows what he's going to tell/show me.
5) For the pro level players, I can't comment how they would feel, as I'm so far down the totem pole I can't relate. But, I'll "guess" that if I was a touring pro trying to climb the ranks, I wouldn't pay for professional advice from anyone less than a 730 Fargo (or was once in their lives). I'd certainly entertain someone's thoughts at a lower rating, but I would not pay them professionally for their advice.
All the below is IMO...
1) An instructor has to have a minimum level of skill on the table IN ORDER to have the "knowledge" to instruct a student on how to improve their game. For example, I think its impossible for a banger to watch 100 hrs of top pro players on youtube, and know the correct strategy of how to play position. Without them knowing how the balls react by experiencing it, they just won't have any idea what is going on.
2) It depends on level disparity between coach and student. If the student is a banger, even a C player can help them quite a bit. Help them with a decent bridge, stance, stroke, basic position play, game strategy, etc. Now, one banger instructing anther, we've all seen that when watching from the rail at our local room the teens come in in groups. Its the blind leading the blind. The other end of that, is a C player would not have anything of value to teach a strong B or higher player. There is a chance the C player might have some pet shot he saw in a video or somewhere that the B player simply never did. Like the 2 balls on the spot one pocket shot, for example.
3) That brings us to Fargo. We now have a decent system for rating the actual performance of a player. By all means, if I'm a Fargo 500 C player, there is no way in hell I'd PAY a professional instructor who was also a 500. I wouldn't even pay if he was a 600. I'd want a 650 as a minimum. That's a top local player, who can cash on regional events, beat the 9 ball ghost maybe 1/3 of the time, etc. Now, if there was a 550 or 600 player that I was buddies with in the local room and we were talking shop and going over shots, I'd certainly listen, and see what they might know that I don't. But I wouldn't pay them professionally for that information.
4) If a player was the equivalent of a 650 Fargo as I wrote above, at ANY point in their life, then that qualifies them. If they quit playing 20 years ago to become an instructor, or any other reason, that doesn't matter. They lived pool and played pool at one point at that level, so they KNOW the game. It does not matter their skill now due to old age or lack of interest in playing. They will never forget the shots. If I was looking for a lesson and Danny Deliberto was offering, I'd take it with no doubt in my mind he knows what he's going to tell/show me.
5) For the pro level players, I can't comment how they would feel, as I'm so far down the totem pole I can't relate. But, I'll "guess" that if I was a touring pro trying to climb the ranks, I wouldn't pay for professional advice from anyone less than a 730 Fargo (or was once in their lives). I'd certainly entertain someone's thoughts at a lower rating, but I would not pay them professionally for their advice.
“He never had to do hardly anything with the cue ball”
Read this^^^^ to yourself a few times slowly.
How good someone plays and how good of a instructor they are, are slightly over lapped.
Also there are 2 kinds of instructors. One works on your fundamentals and never talks about pool games. And some guys who teach 9 ball to beginners or 1P. Most teachers do both.
The best instructor I ever had is a champion, he has the ability to see the problems and deconstruct your set up (stance, how you approach the CB, fundamentals) and reconstruct it and poof I played better. We never talked about pool “games” ever.
The best 1P teacher and banks was a top player (not world class) and he never told me anything about how to hold a cue. He taught me how to bank and move in 1P. He still played great but not like he did in the 70’s. His knowledge exceeded his ability to execute, but he played super strong still.
Then there are teachers who teach both fundamentals & pool games. Nothing wrong with that.
Forget some rating system. Look at how long your teacher has been around pool, how you connect with him/her. And see if your learning and improving.
Not near as important. Look to see if they(teachers) have the respect of their peers-guys who been around forever. Lots of people hate me, I been around a very long time. But even those haters a subset of them respect me. Some don’t respect me either. Nobody in pool likes or respects everyone. They say I talk about myself too much
seriously I’m using myself as a example because I been around a long time and have knowledge that some guys don’t have. My point is look at the person not their rating or tourney or gambling success. When picking a teacher. Stan Shuffet is brilliant, Bob Jewitt doesn’t like me much-but I’d recommend him as a coach/teacher to anyone for certain things.
The person not the rating. And then either fundamentals or games (or both depending on your needs)
Good luck
Fatboy <—-not a instructor, a advisor.
And off of the video i'd give him the 7. Most racks you couldn't have placed the balls any better after a break with your hand. But he seldom made a ball on the break either.
Here are the 3 ghost videos I could find of dr Dave. Of course these are his best efforts. But you have to be able to play some to have scores like these, even if you try a long time.
7-1 9 ball on an 8' table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mClfxQpGD7s&feature=youtu.be
7-2 9 ball on an 8' table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gxf0NjR9gc&feature=youtu.be
7-2 10 ball on a 9' table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Qi24FE8FY&feature=youtu.be
7-1 9 ball on an 8' table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mClfxQpGD7s&feature=youtu.be
7-2 9 ball on an 8' table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gxf0NjR9gc&feature=youtu.be
7-2 10 ball on a 9' table: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Qi24FE8FY&feature=youtu.be
Congratulations on the approaching retirement, Dr. Dave.
Onward to the next chapter of full time pool instruction. We pool students will be more enriched to say the least. Thanks for all that you do.
Thank you! Maybe I’ll also be able to dedicate more time to my game. I didn’t realize how much I sucked until I read this thread. :grin-square:
Best regards,
Dave
Pay no attention to the no-name critics. Your level of play is impressive.