You sure surprised me . . .
I’ve always said and still believe that not only are you a great pool player, but you are also a great ambassador for the sport. Your genuine love of the game and willingness to share your knowledge is what I respect about you most, because that’s how I feel too.
But let’s get the facts straight:
1) “Last season during our 14.1 match he made an opening break shot and failed to drive two balls to the rail. I told him that it was -2 & I wanted him to re rack & do it again. He tells me: no that is not the rule and that I have to accept the table as is. We go back n worth. I let him have his way. The next day he apologizes to me with an e-mail.”
Not true. That was not the situation.
We were in mid game and I committed three consecutive fouls. I knew I suffered an 18 point penalty and was forced to break the full rack of 15 balls. Before I broke, we debated on whether or not the “opening” break requirements needed to be met after committing three consecutive fouls. I didn’t think so, you didn’t know for sure, so I broke not worrying about driving two plus the cue to a rail. I might have actually drove two plus the cue to the rail, but can’t remember for sure. The next day you email me the rule and I also looked it up and admitted to my mistake.
You letting me “have my way” didn’t change the fact that I still incurred the 18 point foul. Not abiding by the break requirements probably just changed the safety battle a little.
2) “Two weeks ago. I let him borrow a VHS tape (Grady Mathews Straight Pool) he brings it tonight to our match and ask to keep it another week. I say sure.”
It was nine days. If you would like, I will stop at Billiard Den on the way to Click’s to drop off your tape this Thursday.
3) “We then start our match. I had to take the opening break. I make a legal break driving two balls to the rail but I scratched in the corner pocket. As the cue ball was falling very slowly into the pocket. I catch it.
He tells me that it is a 16 point foul. I say; no it isn't and that they changed that rule. I do remember talking about this comment on a Post a while back and being corrected by a few here on AZ about the new rule. Back then, I too thought it was a 16 point foul.”
The rules of our league are decided by the league manager and are the BCA General Rules of Pocket Billiards and BCA World Standardized Rules: 14.1 with a few exceptions, none of which are related to the topic here. Attached is the straight pool league document, created by the league manager, which indicates the rules of the league (page 4). He also specifically points out the 16 point foul due to catching a ball headed for a pocket (on page 5) and goes further to cite the BCA rule, 6.75. Here’s the link to BCA rule 6.75,
http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_141.shtml. In fact, the league manager walked in just minutes after it happened. He confirmed that it was a 16 point foul.
4) “I tell him that this is a friendly match and that rule is out dated. He tells me no. I asked him if he remembers last season that I let him get away with his opening break mistake. He tells me were playing by the rules. He tells me this is a 16 point foul, that was only a 2 point foul. I state that the 2 point foul could on lead to an extra 16 points with another break etc. He insisted”
I don’t remember a conversation referring to a two point foul. My foul last season was three consecutive fouls which I knew very well came with a 18 point penalty.
I don’t exactly know what you’re trying to say about a 2 point foul leading to an extra 16 points . . . I guess if I broke 8 successive times without satisfying the break requirements each time, then yes, it would add up to 16 points . . .
I didn’t insist. I actually felt bad about the whole thing. After going back and forth, even after the rules and the league manager confirmed the proper action, you were the one that decided to accept the 16 point foul and not discuss it further.
5) “I told him that I will take the -16 & that I am going to "Kick his Ass"
First rack was 10 to 4 his favor. I then ran 42 with a safe and followed it with a: 15, 20, 21, & a 37. By the 7th inning I had him 117 to 24 with the 16, it would of been 133
It ended up 150 to 62 with many safeties and a 22 inning game.”
You did kick my ass. Nice job. I knew you would. But a few details are wrong:
I was up 14 to 0 in the first rack, made the break shot and missed for a score of 15 to -16.
You ran 42 and fouled. Your other inning scores are correct.
See attached score sheet. I already emailed it to you once, immediately after our match. I would have thought that you would have reviewed the score sheet before posting incorrect details.
6) “Oh, here's another thing. During the match. I scratched. I took the cue out of the pocket and rolled it into the kitchen area. He gets up to the table after talking and starts to shoot the cue where it was laying at a ball by the corner pocket in the kitchen. Right before he shoots it. I tell him that he is making a mistake and that he needs to shoot down table. I just wanted to show him that I was not as low as he was.”
Nice compliment
. I have also indicated to my opponent that they had ball in hand in the kitchen when they forgot. However, one time my opponent didn’t tell me and I did shoot from a bad position.
It’s too bad you think of my as “low.” I did nothing wrong. I simply played by the rules. (It's starting to get ugly...)
Continuing to your next post . . .
7) “LOL........ I did. He pulled up the rules on his cell phone but they were from 2006 and I have been informed that in 2008 that rule was changed. Why did he not pull up the rules during our first match when he made an illegal break? Maybe he did not have that phone four months ago......”
Some WPA rule may have indeed changed in 2008. However, the rules of our league are well documented and confirmed by the league manager as stated in 3).
I did not have my iPhone when we played our match on July 12, 2009, six months ago.
8) “BUT: my point is. No matter what the rule is. This guy & I was having a friendly league match. This was no major tournament. We had no Ref watching the match. To me friendship is more important then winning a game of pool by any means that you can. Some players will cut your throat to win a game by sharking or calling a stupid foul and not worry about friendship down the road. These type of players give pool a bad name and frankly I can not stomach these type of people.
From now on I will not give him or players like him any advise on how to play the game. Let them find answers some where else.”
(It's officially ugly...)
Friendly, yes, but still a league match. If I made a bad hit in our 8-ball match last week, I would expect for you to take ball in hand as the rule dictates. I wouldn’t say, “hey this is a friendly game, just play it in position . . .”
I’m not going to wait for a major tournament before I start playing by the rules.
You’re right. A ref wasn’t watching, but we weren’t debating the fact that you caught the cue ball.
Friendship is definitely more important to me than winning a game. In fact, I don’t mind loosing at all especially if I know I played my best game and my opponent played better. If I played poorly and lost and should have won, then I would be disappointed in myself, but never angry at my opponent. He didn’t do anything wrong. If I were to lose the lag and you went 150 and out, I would be happy for you for playing a perfect game! As I’m sure you would be for me.
I would not cut your throat to win a game. I do think sharking is unsportsmanlike and have played and tolerated many of those kinds of players before. It is bad for the sport.
9) “Instead, I will pound them when we play each other. “
I expect nothing less than your best game when we play. If you’re going to lay down, then I don’t want to play you.
You know you could probably spot me 50 in a race to 150 and still win the majority of the time, so I don’t know why you would get so upset over 16 balls. If anybody should be upset it should be me at having to defend my position of playing by the rules. I have only played 14.1 league for four seasons over the last 15 months. If I’m not mistaken, you have played for 10 – 20 years and have even won some national event.
During my first league match back in October of 2008, an experienced player was trying to convince me that if I accidentally touch a ball it would be a 16 point foul because he thought that it fell under the description of a “deliberate foul.” Although I was new to the game and the league, I was confident in my position because I read and remembered the rules. After he reviewed the rules, he still argued. He then called the league manager and the manager told him it was just a one point foul. Doesn’t anyone know the rules that govern their league???
I was really surprised when I read your posts, Mike. After the incident, we went on to play our match while talking, laughing and having a good time for almost two hours. You didn’t appear to be so upset to write the things you did and go so far as to personally attack my character. I would have never expected that from you. I hope we can move past this and continue our friendship.
Jim