Loose Grip/Tight Grip and Resulting Cueball Action

Biloxi Boy

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
I did not want to hijack flatfoot's thread about slick linen wraps, so . . .

I like tacky wraps because I use a loose grip and don't want my cue "flying" from my hand. So, why not just hold the cue tightly in the first place? My perception is that a loose grip produces more cueball action while a tight grip kills, or retards, such action. Assuming my observation is correct, why would it be true? What could be the physics/mechanics of such a phenomenon?

Thanks.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Biloxi Boy said:
I did not want to hijack flatfoot's thread about slick linen wraps, so . . .

I like tacky wraps because I use a loose grip and don't want my cue "flying" from my hand. So, why not just hold the cue tightly in the first place? My perception is that a loose grip produces more cueball action while a tight grip kills, or retards, such action. Assuming my observation is correct, why would it be true? What could be the physics/mechanics of such a phenomenon?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
The tightness of the grip itself doesn't change CB action, but it could affect how your arm and wrist muscles work to produce stroke speed.

pj
chgo
 
mikemosconi

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, there is an old saying- "let the cue do the work" Too tight a grip keeps the cue stick from completing the needed follow "through" the cue ball - so you really cannot get decent draw, follow or left or right. Every shot becomes a stun shot in effect- very limiting. Also, it is generally much harder to keep the cue in a straight line on delivery to the cue ball because the tight grip usually brings too many "outside" influences to the stroke- instead of just the cue itself moving in a straight line uninhibited.
 
Z

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I prefer a loose grip too. A quality leather wrap is the only way to go as far as I’m concerned.
 
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B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
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it seems tight grips especially at impact seem to "choke" the acceleration of the cue thru the cue ball
jmho
 
goettlicher

goettlicher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mikemosconi said:
Well, there is an old saying- "let the cue do the work" Too tight a grip keeps the cue stick from completing the needed follow "through" the cue ball - so you really cannot get decent draw, follow or left or right. Every shot becomes a stun shot in effect- very limiting. Also, it is generally much harder to keep the cue in a straight line on delivery to the cue ball because the tight grip usually brings too many "outside" influences to the stroke- instead of just the cue itself moving in a straight line uninhibited.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike

Just being a devil's advocate here.

How much follow thru is needed?

randyg
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
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goettlicher said:
Great answer!

randyg
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Unnecessarilly complicated for the average bear, IMO. It's like saying pushing the brake pedal with your foot doesn't slow the car but it does lead to a series of mechanical and hydraulic actions that do slow the car.
 
Biloxi Boy

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
In shooting a stun shot, I get far better results using a tight grip. When using english or draw, a loose grip seems to work best.
 
xianmacx

xianmacx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Didn't some of the robot tests prove it all comes down to speed, and follow through is not needed?

Tight muscles = less speed
loose muscles = more speed

more speed = more cueball action.

Similar to golf and baseball where you are trying to generate clubhead speed. None of you muscles should be overly tight, including grip.
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Dan White said:
Unnecessarilly complicated for the average bear, IMO. It's like saying pushing the brake pedal with your foot doesn't slow the car but it does lead to a series of mechanical and hydraulic actions that do slow the car.
Click to expand...
It's more like saying pushing the brake pedal might lead to a series of other actions - which, of course, isn't accurate for braking, but is for stroking.

pj
chgo
 
JolietJames

JolietJames

Boot Party Coordinator
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
The tightness of the grip itself doesn't change CB action, but it could affect how your arm and wrist muscles work to produce stroke speed.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Agreed. Loose grip allows a slight snap of the wrist which, for me, increases the speed/action.
 
Biloxi Boy

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
Please bear with me. Trying to advance my understanding.

No doubt in my mind that the rigidity associated with a tight grip impedes wrist action,
or "snap" as JJ names it.

(Is snap the same as "throwing your cue"?)

Is the conclusion that snap just before, or at, impact produces acceleration exceeding the speed produced by the arm's pendulum action?

But, why wouldn't increasing arm speed produce the same result as a snap?

Or, does snap produce speed that pendulum action cannot match?

Or, does snap create additional follow through because the path of travel is increased?

I know nothing about the robot trials. The first thing that needs to be resolved is speed versus follow through. All of my life the concept of follow through was drilled into me.
 
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S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Wrist snap" is a myth. The cueball is gone from the cuetip in less than a quarter of an eye blink (1/1000th of a second)...far too quick for wrist snap to have any physical effect on the outcome. The myth still reverberates many years later. Tight grip is the ENEMY of a great stroke, period!

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Biloxi Boy said:
Please bear with me. Trying to advance my understanding.

No doubt in my mind that the rigidity associated with a tight grip impedes wrist action,
or "snap" as JJ names it.

(Is snap the same as "throwing your cue"?)

Is the conclusion that snap just before, or at, impact produces acceleration exceeding the speed produced by the arm's pendulum action?

But, why wouldn't increasing arm speed produce the same result as a snap?

Or, does snap produce speed that pendulum action cannot match?

Or, does snap create additional follow through because the path of travel is increased?

I know nothing about the robot trials. The first thing that needs to be resolved is speed versus follow through. All of my life the concept of follow through was drilled into me.
Click to expand...
 
Biloxi Boy

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
So snap will not increase speed or follow through (whichever is the correct agent)?
 
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B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
scott
would you agree the "snap" adds acceleration to the cue before impact?
i do....icbw
the same effect on the cue ball could be achieved with a faster accelerating pendulum stroke with no snap i agree
i think this is an answer to a question above
 
RDeca

RDeca

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I prefer irish linen and cork wraps. U can't sand either one to be as slick or rough as u want. Neither will ever feel wet or sticky like leathers. My grip is about as much pressure as you would use to take your pulse.. I like my linen super slick
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Larry...No I do not agree. For that to even be possible, you'd have to start "snapping your wrist BEFORE the cuestick reaches the bottom of the pendulum strike. Perfect timing is difficult enough without adding something extreme like wrist snap. Like I said...it's a myth.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

bbb said:
scott
would you agree the "snap" adds acceleration to the cue before impact?
i do....icbw
the same effect on the cue ball could be achieved with a faster accelerating pendulum stroke with no snap i agree
i think this is an answer to a question above
Click to expand...
 
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