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08-21-2013, 09:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
I know. But, I did have a legit reason. I was wondering if a certain person was in his h.o.f. that is in the legit H.O.F.
Ray Martin was inducted last year and he is also in the BCA hall of fame.
  
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08-21-2013, 11:04 PM

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Originally Posted by scratchs View Post
I'm a nobody..so what I think really doesn't count much..
Not on AZ land ... just keep posting often (doesn't mater what you post), get greenie rep points and pretty soon you ARE somebody.
  
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08-22-2013, 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
I tried to find online just who is in their hall of fame. I came up blank. Are we just supposed to go by memory each year??
2011 (first year) -- Ray Martin and Jerome Keogh
2012 -- Danny Diliberto and Jack Colavita
2013 -- Oliver Ortmann and Gene Nagy

In addition, in 2012, they inducted "World Champions from 1912 on through the earlier decades of 14.1 history" (quoting a DP release). I do not have a list of those players.
  
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08-22-2013, 01:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
Sorry everyone, just need to vent for a second...

IT IS NOT A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Mike
LOL!!! Sounds like you need a hug ... I know exactly how you feel! I'm here for you brother.
  
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08-22-2013, 04:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeDo View Post
OK, I get it, we all want pool to be unified.
So we should pick one leader (like the WPA) and follow their lead and get behind them.
If the WPA puts out a 14.1 World Championship, and Dragon Promotions puts out one,
it's absolutely fair to say the WPA version is the one TRUE World Championships.

The thing is, the WPA doesn't put out a 14.1 championships.

It's a great game, and players have shown interest, and fans will at least watch for free
(900ish on the stream at one point).
But the WPA apparently has no interest in making a world straight pool championship.

Also their track record with other events is spotty. World 9 ball has been semi-reliable but missed 2008 for the men,
2003 & 2005 for the women.

World 8 ball skipped 2006 and 2009.
World 10 ball skipped 2010.

The DP version of this event has at least run continuously since it started.
And apparently the 2010 version was WPA sanctioned.

So how do you want to define a "World championship"?
The best players competing in unquestionably the #1 straight pool tournament that's run smoothly for years?
Or do we define it using some nitpicky technicality and "pool politics" where the exact same event
sometimes gets the title (2010) and sometimes doesn't (all other years)?
The WPA do not actually put on any events at all. They sanction events put on by others.
  
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08-22-2013, 04:43 AM

WPA Sanctioning criteria:

http://wpa-pool.com/web/tournament_s...ning_catalogue
  
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08-22-2013, 05:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
Is that true? He is a ..do? That is a serious accusation.
Not true-even the poster uses the word 'women'

Last edited by Nostroke; 08-22-2013 at 05:13 AM.
  
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08-22-2013, 05:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostroke View Post
Not true-even the poster uses the word 'women'
I found that very hard to believe.

Last edited by (((Satori))); 08-22-2013 at 05:27 AM.
  
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08-22-2013, 05:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
Sorry everyone, just need to vent for a second...

IT IS NOT A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Mike

Are u an Anti American?





Hustling in pool is an art and I will defend it till I die.
  
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08-22-2013, 06:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
Sorry everyone, just need to vent for a second...

IT IS NOT A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,
Mike
Let's do this every year.

I never get tired of hearing this.
  
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  (#71)
CreeDo
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08-22-2013, 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tucson9ball View Post
OK, so by using your logic. What if there is another event equal to this one in every way, in Las Vegas in a few months. Which one would be the "real" World Championship?
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it?? That'd be a nice problem to have.

I did read this post which someone helpfully linked.
The objection seems to boil down to 3 problems.

1. The money isn't big enough. WPA wants 200,000 added. This event is ~50k added.
2. In the past, without strict requirements, a million different tournaments were calling themselves "World Championships"
3. Charlie isn't falling in line and respecting the authority of the WPA.

Well #1 Is a problem that basically cannot be solved. It's the economy.
Harping about the title will not put pressure on CW to somehow grow $150,000 out of nowhere.
We may never see that level of money spent on straight pool again in our lifetimes.

Problem #2 is not a problem anymore. Only one event is trying to use the title.
No other event is getting all the talent in one room for that much money.

Problem #3 also cannot be solved it seems... it's been 7 years and CW's not
falling in line. The WPA has no carrot or stick to make him.

So if nobody can do anything about these problems, why doesn't the WPA just
accept reality? This walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Let's just call it a duck.
How does it advance pool by refusing to accept the "World championship" name?
What is the beneficial end result of saying "this name is wrong, and this is
not a legitimate world championship"?

Jerry's post implied the WPA was in talks with a promoter to put up
a possible alternative, a true world championship. That was 2 years ago,
who was this contender? Nobody else is stepping up to make it happen.

So what is the PRACTICAL benefit of harping against the title?

Makes you feel better
....????

What is the PRACTICAL benefit of just letting the title stand?

We have a world championship every year, a title a player can be proud of.
I'd rather say I won the "73rd World 14.1 championship" than the
"7th annual DP Predator Straight Pool Classic".

"yeah but you didn't win a world championship! That title is fake!"
OK, tell that to the competitor who worked hard to beat every other
top player on the planet. Tell him that title is BS and he shouldn't call himself a world champion,
because of pool politics.

We generate excitement for fans, casual players get a lot more excited to hear
about world championships. They are more likely to tune in for the "world championships".

We encourage a little more unity in the pool world, rather than promoting
endless squabbling over nitpicky stuff. I know everyone sees this as CW thumbing
his nose at the WPA. But to me it seems like the WPA is also screwing up a little,
by refusing to acknowledge the OBVIOUS #1 straight pool event as a world championship.
They'd rather have decades pass with NOBODY getting the title, which benefits pool how?
If they don't recognize the problem and adapt, we may all die without ever seeing another
"true" straight pool world championship. Is that really ok with any of you?
  
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  (#72)
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08-22-2013, 09:10 AM

Those of you who have read the link to WPA Sanctioning criteria will probably recognise that the WPA are merely trying to hold the line on standards relating to 'World' classified events.

While it is true that both the World 8 Ball and the World 10 Ball have been shelved this year the reason for these lost events was because of the WPA policy of requiring promoters to lodge the bulk of the sponsorship several weeks before the commencement of the tournament. Now this is a Lose-Lose situation for the WPA.

They are trying to protect players from getting stung for their prize money but in a practical world this Pay Up Front is not an acceptable business practice. So the two events slated for Dubai and Oslo organisers failed to convince their sponsors to meet this financial requirement.

As far as I am aware other sports have something that pool does not have and that is financial reserves.
Golf and Tennis for example. are able to Bridge Loan their tournament staging costs and prize funds pending the arrival of sponsorship cash.

This is not possible for the WPA to replicate. You only have to add up the total money paid out on Sanctioned events and 5% of that makes a pretty meagre income for a World Governing Body.

Last edited by pro9dg; 08-22-2013 at 09:12 AM.
  
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08-22-2013, 09:25 AM

But the 14.1 event doesn't just fall short on WPA prize money levels. There are other factors such as how players are selected to play in the event. The WPA follow a process where the continental federations get quotas which loosely means that 30% of the fields are Asians, 30% Europeans and the other 40% are the Rest of the World.

There are other conditions that I am just too lazy to list.

But the bottom line is how you perceive this event.
Do you feel secure IN YOUR OWN MIND that whoever wins it is truly The WORLD STRAIGHT POOL CHAMPION. I am afraid that my subconcious won't recognise the winner (or even any past winners) as being that.

It is a great event but where are Chang Jung Lin, Ko Pin yi or Van Corteza plus the Jap Hot Shots?
  
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08-22-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostroke View Post
Not true-even the poster uses the word 'women'
Should I say girls then. Young, under 18.


"Pool and smoke been together as long as peanut butter and jelly. Tell SVB stay home." ~Juice~

Who named the Diamond 10 Foot Table? And the Big Foot Invitational? The first to reply, in the thread below, post #63.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...=299855&page=5
  
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08-22-2013, 12:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pro9dg View Post
But the 14.1 event doesn't just fall short on WPA prize money levels. There are other factors such as how players are selected to play in the event. The WPA follow a process where the continental federations get quotas which loosely means that 30% of the fields are Asians, 30% Europeans and the other 40% are the Rest of the World.
[...]
the bottom line is how you perceive this event.
Do you feel secure IN YOUR OWN MIND that whoever wins it is truly The WORLD STRAIGHT POOL CHAMPION. I am afraid that my subconcious won't recognise the winner (or even any past winners) as being that.
It is a great event but where are Chang Jung Lin, Ko Pin yi or Van Corteza plus the Jap Hot Shots?
re: The invitational process... I've heard complaints CW shows favoritism in this.
If so, that's definitely a concern. On the other hand, any invitational runs that risk.
The lack of players like Lee Van doesn't bother me. If guys like Schmidt, Toasti, Johnny and Earl
wanted to play but couldn't, then I'd definitely have a hard time taking the event as seriously.

I do actually agree the bottom line is how you perceive the event.
That's the reason I cannot bring myself to dismiss the title - to me this feels like the
World Straight Pool Championships despite the technicality of WPA sanctioning.
It's [almost] all the best guys, in one room, playing a large and reasonably fair tournament
of sufficient length, with plenty of players, for enough money to make everyone care.

I dunno why your subconscious doesn't want to accept it as a world championship...
I know plenty of people feel the same way.
I'm gonna hazard some guesses and feel free to tell me I'm full of it:

- We remember or have heard stories of the Good Old Days when the 14.1 Straight Pool Championship
was THE pool title... it was huge, spectators packed the stands at roughly $20-25 a head.
The payout was massive (after you factor inflation). The players were legends like Willie Mosconi and Ralph Greenleaf.

The money today is smaller, probably the venue too... I'm sure there are fewer spectators.
And some of these guys like Eddie Kwok and Craig Houghton are relative unknowns.
They're probably not the next Mosconi. Nonetheless, it looks to me like plenty of world champions are there,
and nobody is conspicuously absent who really wanted to play.

If another event could offer the grandeur and massive payout of the old days, it would be great
and it would be worthy. But that's not gonna happen, unfortunately the game is now a niche game.
The best we've got are playing for as much as we can muster, in the best setting available.

- Charlie got accused of molesting a woman and other shitty stuff.
Nobody wants to associate a prestigious event that's like a hundred years old with
someone who has a reputation as a dirtbag. I can understand that.

- On AZB especially it's important to us that players and promoters work together, and we want
one true governing body like the WPA. By not worrying about WPA sanctioning,
CW is refusing to get with the program. Nobody likes it when everyone is pulling
in one direction and one guy decides he's gonna be a cowboy and go the opposite way.

My guess is, these factors are the real reason some people have trouble seeing this as a world championship,
not so much the actual lack of sanction.
  
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