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04-30-2019, 08:38 AM

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Originally Posted by alstl View Post
I agree Filler is probably the best right now. Certainly in 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball and 14.1 nobody is going to give him weight.

That said I'd like to see a high profile event like the U S Open ban jump cues. It takes far more ability to kick and kick safe than to pull out a jump cue. Example - final rack of De Luna vs Pagulayan - De Luna broke but couldn't see the 1 ball. Pushed to the rail for a left handed jump shot. I suspect if they banned jump cues there would be some different names in the quarter finals.
Ban jumping, because we are playing billiards. Or donít ban jumping, in which case donít ban jump cues.
  
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04-30-2019, 08:42 AM

He needs to play SVB in l9nger races. May be best of 3 races to 25.

Any of these guys can run packages , so winning races of 9 or 11 doesn't mean the rest of the world can't play.
  
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04-30-2019, 08:52 AM

No offense to ANY top player but short(less than 25) races, winner-break do very little to determine "best player". That's why most action was always "ahead" sets. These can be brutally long but they DO eliminate the luck factor almost entirely. Look, the kid plays awesomely well and holds two of the biggest titles in pool. He had two great weeks. Lets leave it at that. As JH put it, i don't see him or any other top Euro lining up to do battle with the top Filipinos. The world is full of good players. The great list, imo, is somewhat shorter.
  
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04-30-2019, 09:31 AM

My two cents: Josh Filler is definitely the hungriest player from what I can see. Europe and Asia is producing many great young players and they are not holding back on their play or just mailing it in on talent. Even the older European and Asian players playing to win.
  
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04-30-2019, 10:46 AM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
No offense to ANY top player but short(less than 25) races, winner-break do very little to determine "best player". That's why most action was always "ahead" sets. These can be brutally long but they DO eliminate the luck factor almost entirely. Look, the kid plays awesomely well and holds two of the biggest titles in pool. He had two great weeks. Lets leave it at that. As JH put it, i don't see him or any other top Euro lining up to do battle with the top Filipinos. The world is full of good players. The great list, imo, is somewhat shorter.
No offense to you but long races really have nothing to do with our sport other than offering a novelty match that many enjoy.

In real competition, there's no playing yourself into a match --- you need to perform from rack one. There is no more difficult assignment in our game than beating champion after champion after champion to win a title. As we've seen, very few are up to the challenge, but the few who are need to be recognized as the true greats. They are the ones who find their highest gears when the biggest titles are on the line.

Thankfully, the Hall of Fame understands this, and no Hall of Fame blurb cites how an inductee performed in long novelty matches. That's because such matches are irrelevant in the measurement of what constitutes a great career.

Greatness is measured in titles!
  
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04-30-2019, 10:59 AM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
No offense to you but long races really have nothing to do with our sport other than offering a novelty match that many enjoy.

In real competition, there's no playing yourself into a match --- you need to perform from rack one. There is no more difficult assignment in our game than beating champion after champion after champion to win a title. As we've seen, very few are up to the challenge, but the few who are need to be recognized as the true greats. They are the ones who find their highest gears when the biggest titles are on the line.

Thankfully, the Hall of Fame understands this, and no Hall of Fame blurb cites how an inductee performed in long novelty matches. That's because such matches are irrelevant in the measurement of what constitutes a great career.

Greatness is measured in titles!
Whatever dude. Some of the GREATEST players who ever lived rarely, if ever, played in "big time trophy" tournaments. They played to get the CASH. Go play 10ahead for 10dimes and get back to me. See if you still see it as "novelty" pool. Nine-ball, even at these guy's level, still has too much luck involved. How can short sets and a game that still has a fairly high luck-factor determine the better player? Suppose they switched the 14.1 champ. to 75point games? Best player may not like it.
  
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04-30-2019, 11:29 AM

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Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
OK I think everybody understands this point.

Filler and Wu battled it out in the finals of a very exciting and superbly produced event and it is good to celebrate this achievement.

Did you know there is another player (we'll call him "ALSOPLAYED") who actually beat Filler 11-8 in this event AND beat Wu 11-3 in this event?
So ALSOPLAYED is 22-11 in this same event against the two who made the finals.
yes, it has been mentioned in about every single thread about the open
  
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04-30-2019, 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm View Post
No offense to you but long races really have nothing to do with our sport other than offering a novelty match that many enjoy.

In real competition, there's no playing yourself into a match --- you need to perform from rack one. There is no more difficult assignment in our game than beating champion after champion after champion to win a title. As we've seen, very few are up to the challenge, but the few who are need to be recognized as the true greats. They are the ones who find their highest gears when the biggest titles are on the line.

Thankfully, the Hall of Fame understands this, and no Hall of Fame blurb cites how an inductee performed in long novelty matches. That's because such matches are irrelevant in the measurement of what constitutes a great career.

Greatness is measured in titles!
I think a strong argument can be made that yes, right now at this moment, Fuller is the best 9 baller in the world. (I mean, what else does winning a world championship mean). Is he a better 9 baller than Earl in his prime? I would not try that argument because he hasn't been around long enough.

Why would the current DCC MOT not be considered the overall best pool player? Are there any other tourney's that combine several disciplines? Is it because there weren't a passel of Asians populating the tournament?
  
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04-30-2019, 12:30 PM

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Originally Posted by garczar View Post
Whatever dude. Some of the GREATEST players who ever lived rarely, if ever, played in "big time trophy" tournaments. They played to get the CASH. Go play 10ahead for 10dimes and get back to me. See if you still see it as "novelty" pool. Nine-ball, even at these guy's level, still has too much luck involved. How can short sets and a game that still has a fairly high luck-factor determine the better player? Suppose they switched the 14.1 champ. to 75point games? Best player may not like it.
No doubt, the C player who beat another C player out of 10,000,000 is your greatest hero.

It's your every right not to care who beats the best on the biggest stages our game has to offer. As for the luck factor, that's a lot of nonsense. The same guys win the big stuff over and over and over. Yes, there's the odd cinderella story, but for the most part, the superstars are the ones that win the biggest events.

That's why guys like SVB, Strickland and Archer mass produced titles at the US Open and the World 9-ball Championships. Even in the days when it was race to seven, SVB was the most dominant player at the Derby City Nine Ball, winning three titles in that stretch. The luck factor has never gotten in the way of the true greats in tournament play. As Jay Helfert has often posted, the game, format and race length, in the end, make no difference. The best, Jay so often notes, get to the finish line anyway.
  
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04-30-2019, 12:32 PM

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Originally Posted by jokrswylde View Post
[...]

Why would the current DCC MOT not be considered the overall best pool player? [...]
Perhaps because a pool player from Kentucky or Tennessee arguing One Pocket and Bank Pool should figure into who is the best pool player in the world is a little like a Canadian arguing Hockey performance should be figured into determining who is the best athlete in the world?


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04-30-2019, 01:16 PM

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Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
Perhaps because a pool player from Kentucky or Tennessee arguing One Pocket and Bank Pool should figure into who is the best pool player in the world is a little like a Canadian arguing Hockey performance should be figured into determining who is the best athlete in the world?
Point taken. I would counter with the fact that the world's best athlete title has traditionally gone to the best decathlete. Not for the fastest sprinter, or the heaviest lifter, or the highest jumper...
  
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04-30-2019, 02:18 PM

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Point taken. I would counter with the fact that the world's best athlete title has traditionally gone to the best decathlete. Not for the fastest sprinter, or the heaviest lifter, or the highest jumper...
Depends what you mean by best athlete...the men's 100m is by far the highest profile event and gets all the press.

I don't disagree with your logic, but I'm not sure its accepted that whoever wins the decathlon gold is the 'best athlete'.
  
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Talking 04-30-2019, 05:43 PM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
No offense to you but long races really have nothing to do with our sport other than offering a novelty match that many enjoy.

In real competition, there's no playing yourself into a match --- you need to perform from rack one. There is no more difficult assignment in our game than beating champion after champion after champion to win a title. As we've seen, very few are up to the challenge, but the few who are need to be recognized as the true greats. They are the ones who find their highest gears when the biggest titles are on the line.

Thankfully, the Hall of Fame understands this, and no Hall of Fame blurb cites how an inductee performed in long novelty matches. That's because such matches are irrelevant in the measurement of what constitutes a great career.

Greatness is measured in titles!

+1 Absolutely agree

Long races become more like endurance/stamina tests. If 2 players of same level play 10 long races, they would each win about 5 races each so it really does not settle anything. Winner of match just means he played better on that day and does not mean he will win next time they play.
IMHO, Tournaments are the tougher and better decider of who is better in the long run. You constantly have to adapt, play with players of different styles/ skill, contend with more variables.and can be blindsided by unknown players and the element of surprise.
You constantly have to perform at every match from word go. Unlike in long race, there is no such thing as being behind 5 or 10 racks and you can still sit back and have time to wait for your mojo to come.
That is why other sports do not have long races. Darts does not have races to 50, nor does bowling. Long races are side shows and barely mentioned when history looks at the achievements of the top players. I look forward to the day pool has pro tour with full calendar of tournaments so top players make money and do not have time to play such long races
  
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04-30-2019, 06:02 PM

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+1 Absolutely agree

Long races become more like endurance/stamina tests. If 2 players of same level play 10 long races, they would each win about 5 races each so it really does not settle anything. Winner of match just means he played better on that day and does not mean he will win next time they play.
IMHO, Tournaments are the tougher and better decider of who is better in the long run. You constantly have to adapt, play with players of different styles/ skill, contend with more variables.and can be blindsided by unknown players and the element of surprise.
You constantly have to perform at every match from word go. Unlike in long race, there is no such thing as being behind 5 or 10 racks and you can still sit back and have time to wait for your mojo to come.
That is why other sports do not have long races. Darts does not have races to 50, nor does bowling. Long races are side shows and barely mentioned when history looks at the achievements of the top players. I look forward to the day pool has pro tour with full calendar of tournaments so top players make money and do not have time to play such long races
Ask these top players if theyíd rather have a short or long race - the long race favors the better player, period.

Iím just amazed at how many people donít get that.

Jason
  
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04-30-2019, 07:27 PM

My view is not scientific by any means, but in the last two years, I've seen Shane, Shaw, Chang, Wu, both Ko brothers, Albin, Ruiz, Gorst, Biado, Orcollo, Kazakis and more come up short when the big money/tournament was on the line (gambling and official play)....

I have yet to see Filler shrink in the face of late tourney/gambling money one bit. The kid just comes up big in big moments and I dont think this is luck. From his Mosconi Cup 5-0 MvP performance, to the world championship in Qatar, to China, to the US Open, Sure you might get a lucky roll, or lucky ball, but he doesn't whither away and look like a hollow shell of Josh Filler. Now that is obviously a combination of great shot making, and killer safety play, and scientific breaks....

Filler just seems like he can do anything the other players do, but only better when in the clutch. That makes him the best out there right now in my view.
  
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