Cue pawn - opinions wanted

POOLPLYR1111 · Apr 23, 2016

I just wanted to get some opinions/feedback for a friend of mine who is considering this "venture".

Alot of us here on az including myself have had things happen in our lives where we were forced to sell our precious cues to raise some fast cash.

After its all said and done and your in a better spot financially your saying to yourself i wish i never sold that cue or maybe i can buy it back from the guy i sold it to?

So here my buddy has the cue pawn idea.

Every transaction would be by a contract that will eventually be drawn up and would go something like this.

Obviously top $ would not be given to those interested because people would just dump cues they have been trying to sell with no intention of getting them back.

Lets use southwest cues as an example.
On the average low end $2200-$4000+ depending on the cue for a southwest cue in todays market.

So you have a southwest cue that you can sell for $3200 but need cash asap. Would a $2500 loan quick be out of the question with a few stipulations?

1) ship cue for inspection

if everything checks out (cue condition)

2) both parties sign contract and cash is wired/sent.

3) person pawning the cue has 9 months to pay back the loan + 5%. No required monthly payments but the flexibility to pay what you can when you can. (im told receipts will be given)

so with this scenario of a $2500 loan the person who pawned the cue has to pay back $2625 + return shipping . Obviously if 9 months pass and the loan isnt paid in full the cue would be kept and eventually be sold.

So lets hear some opinions. Pros - cons?
Not even sure if this has been tried before but its quite possible this could be an option for people in the future.

***note*** i have nothing to do with this idea. I am posting for an older gentleman in my area who has been around the game for 30+ years and just wanted some feedback whether its good or bad.

Rubik's Cube · Apr 23, 2016

Good evening, sir.

My initial thoughts are that your payments are high and interest rates low, you're gearing up to be too generous in other words. Also, your friend would need to be extremely vigilant regards stolen goods.

It's not a business I would care to undertake to be brutally honest, but best of luck.

Kind regards,
RC.

lakeman77 · Apr 23, 2016

I agree with Rubik's Cube, lending too much money and not charging enough interest. Today with the internet, which every pawn shop has, you best leave this business to pro's.
I think pawn shops lend about 30% of what they hope they can sell it for, and even at that they get stuck.
If I was lending money on that Southwest, I'd maybe go $1000, if I knew tons about Southwest cues.
Not the business for kind hearted amateurs.

BmoreMoney · Apr 23, 2016

POOLPLYR1111 said:
I just wanted to get some opinions/feedback for a friend of mine who is considering this "venture".

Alot of us here on az including myself have had things happen in our lives where we were forced to sell our precious cues to raise some fast cash.

After its all said and done and your in a better spot financially your saying to yourself i wish i never sold that cue or maybe i can buy it back from the guy i sold it to?

So here my buddy has the cue pawn idea.

Every transaction would be by a contract that will eventually be drawn up and would go something like this.

Obviously top $ would not be given to those interested because people would just dump cues they have been trying to sell with no intention of getting them back.

Lets use southwest cues as an example.
On the average low end $2200-$4000+ depending on the cue for a southwest cue in todays market.

So you have a southwest cue that you can sell for $3200 but need cash asap. Would a $2500 loan quick be out of the question with a few stipulations?

1) ship cue for inspection

if everything checks out (cue condition)

2) both parties sign contract and cash is wired/sent.

3) person pawning the cue has 9 months to pay back the loan + 5%. No required monthly payments but the flexibility to pay what you can when you can. (im told receipts will be given)

so with this scenario of a $2500 loan the person who pawned the cue has to pay back $2625 + return shipping . Obviously if 9 months pass and the loan isnt paid in full the cue would be kept and eventually be sold.

So lets hear some opinions. Pros - cons?
Not even sure if this has been tried before but its quite possible this could be an option for people in the future.

***note*** i have nothing to do with this idea. I am posting for an older gentleman in my area who has been around the game for 30+ years and just wanted some feedback whether its good or bad.

Nice idea but I don't see it happening. You're not gonna be getting Southwests in, you're gonna get a bunch of SP's am lower end cues. Anything can happen but I don't see many people with high end cues needing to pawn them. Also hopes he really likes cues because he will amass quite a collection lol. Lastly u Der no circumstances would I tie money up like that at such a low interest for such a long time. If he's gonna do it it should be at least like a real pawn shop, loan NO more than 50% of value ( probably more like 25% ) and interest is per 30 days and at least an interest payment is do every 30 days. The way you described it I can't see it as anything but a losing proposition sorry.

cueaddicts · Apr 23, 2016

They will most likely be the cues that use to be 3000-4000 that now aren't close to sellable at half those amounts. It's very difficult to gauge the current market for many cues because they won't bring ca$h....only trades.

In a nutshell, it could be a good idea...but you would want to be beyond careful with monies loaned on some cues.

skins · Apr 23, 2016

Your idea gives too much money AND intrest rate should be 10% MONTHLY.

Also he'd have to carry some hefty insurance because he'd be resposible for any damages to the item. And there WOULD be damage claims.

As a one time thing to help out someone, sure, but for a business, nope.

Bavafongoul · Apr 23, 2016

You can't operate pawn by giving 50%-70% value on anything......

More likely, you'd get 15%-25% at most presuming the cue was in good shape.

Cue values are arbitrary and capricious by nature and you can't predict the final price
nor how long.....the lower you sell the cue, the faster it would sell.

So pawn services always skew the odds and value in the favor of the house and that
would mean if you had a cue you felt was worth 7500....every cue isn't going to be a
Szamboti, Searing or Black Boar.....you probably wouldn't offer more than $2k to $2500
because rest assured a real pawn shop wouldn't.....this isn't a not for profit service and
you need to protect your ass. Imagine if you got stuck with a great looking counterfeit cue?

Matt B.

Chopdoc · Apr 23, 2016

Bavafongoul said:
You can't operate pawn by giving 50%-70% value on anything......

More likely, you'd get 15%-25% at most presuming the cue was in good shape.

Cue values are arbitrary and capricious by nature and you can't predict the final price
nor how long.....the lower you sell the cue, the faster it would sell.

So pawn services always skew the odds and value in the favor of the house and that
would mean if you had a cue you felt was worth 7500....every cue isn't going to be a
Szamboti, Searing or Black Boar.....you probably wouldn't offer more than $2k to $2500
because rest assured a real pawn shop wouldn't.....this isn't a not for profit service and
you need to protect your ass. Imagine if you got stuck with a great looking counterfeit cue?

Matt B.

I agree.

And counterfeits have happened. And it has happened to one or two fairly knowledgeable people I know.

If you want to talk pawn, talk to somebody in that industry regarding the percentages and how it works. There are legal matters to consider as well. . I think that Bavafongoul is not far off.

In addition, most pawn brokers are pretty ignorant where pool cues are concerned. They use the Blue Book, which is a joke for value. They really don't know what they are doing with pool cues. You better really know what you are doing with them.

.

.

skins · Apr 23, 2016

Bavafongoul said:
You can't operate pawn by giving 50%-70% value on anything......

More likely, you'd get 15%-25% at most presuming the cue was in good shape.

Cue values are arbitrary and capricious by nature and you can't predict the final price
nor how long.....the lower you sell the cue, the faster it would sell.

So pawn services always skew the odds and value in the favor of the house and that
would mean if you had a cue you felt was worth 7500....every cue isn't going to be a
Szamboti, Searing or Black Boar.....you probably wouldn't offer more than $2k to $2500
because rest assured a real pawn shop wouldn't.....this isn't a not for profit service and
you need to protect your ass. Imagine if you got stuck with a great looking counterfeit cue?

Matt B.

I've been told by my local pawn broker buddy that typical pawn IS 35 to 50% of the "sell-able" value thought of by the pawn shop.... No pawn shop would get much business if they only paid 15 to 25% of sell-able value....

Bavafongoul · Apr 23, 2016

I think it depends on the trustworthiness of the item's intrinsic value and it's likely market value.....
You'd obviously lend a higher percentage amount for gold....like a gold watch...or a precious gem.

I think Chopdoc is right.....look at how hard it is to sell cues on AZ.today...look at the market 5 years
ago and today....what's the resale trend line for pool cue values? A pawn shop has to duly consider
the viability of the item selling fast and what price would be required to accomplish that. As I said,
gold obviously has a higher intrinsic value than a pool cue, as would a precious gem, or a expensive
Rolex, etc......there's just a bigger market and higher demand for those type items if the pawn shop
had to sell it.......it's not like on Pawn Stars where people come in waving cash looking to buy or sell an something.

I guess the real point is no one is going to lend you as much money for your pool cue as you'd like to get.
Then there's the interest rate and length of term......pawn is cut throat so unless you knew someone,
the chances are you'd be disappointed with the % because you have to realize that the pawn shop
and you'd probably not agree on the value you'd assign to your pool cue.....and only the opinion of the
pawn lender matters since it's their money and besides, they also make all the rules.....you can either
accept their offer or go home...and the interest rate would be high....just look at the rate bank
credit card companies charge....ultimately, the lender want to get all their money
back fast and make a profit if they had to sell the cue......they have to cover costs..

Matt B.

BmoreMoney · Apr 23, 2016

skins said:
I've been told by my local pawn broker buddy that typical pawn IS 35 to 50% of the "sell-able" value thought of by the pawn shop.... No pawn shop would get much business if they only paid 15 to 25% of sell-able value....

Somebody's been watching too much Pawn Stars! Lol jk, but couple things to remember : I'm sure it varies by geographical location as well as demographics served. Also what your buddy considers a sell-able value is not going to be the same as what the general publics is going to be. To limit risk they asses the value based on what is the ABSOLUTE least they could get for the item. So your buddy's 35-50% is going to be taken from that figure, not what it may realistically sell for. My father's best friend was the largest pawn broker in Baltimore so I do have a bit of insight as to the inner workings of the business. Another thing that hasn't really been touched on is a pawn brokers license is heavily regulated. These regulations will vary by where they are located but I do believe across the board he will be required to operate from a fixed commercial property which is also zoned for a pawn business and that zoning will be much tougher to find than you may think.

skins · Apr 23, 2016

BmoreMoney said:
Somebody's been watching too much Pawn Stars! Lol jk, but couple things to remember : I'm sure it varies by geographical location as well as demographics served. Also what your buddy considers a sell-able value is not going to be the same as what the general publics is going to be. To limit risk they asses the value based on what is the ABSOLUTE least they could get for the item. So your buddy's 35-50% is going to be taken from that figure, not what it may realistically sell for. My father's best friend was the largest pawn broker in Baltimore so I do have a bit of insight as to the inner workings of the business. Another thing that hasn't really been touched on is a pawn brokers license is heavily regulated. These regulations will vary by where they are located but I do believe across the board he will be required to operate from a fixed commercial property which is also zoned for a pawn business and that zoning will be much tougher to find than you may think.

He's been a Pawn broker for over 40 years.... I do love Pawn Stars though...

PaulieB · Apr 23, 2016

I hope you have both a lot of cash and a big storage space because I feel your intake of cues will be much more than your output of sales after the fact.

If you set your margins more in your favor it could work... but you are thinking more about a few sales and not thinking about the big picture. If 25 people come to you with cues in the first week of your business are you willing to outlay $50k with no guaranteed payback or sales?

BmoreMoney · Apr 23, 2016

Don't forget either that you're gonna need a huge surety bond. I'm assuming your friend is well to do but to do this 100% legit start up funds are gonna be hefty.

TATE · Apr 23, 2016

POOLPLYR1111 said:
I just wanted to get some opinions/feedback for a friend of mine who is considering this "venture".

Alot of us here on az including myself have had things happen in our lives where we were forced to sell our precious cues to raise some fast cash.

After its all said and done and your in a better spot financially your saying to yourself i wish i never sold that cue or maybe i can buy it back from the guy i sold it to?

So here my buddy has the cue pawn idea.

Every transaction would be by a contract that will eventually be drawn up and would go something like this.

Obviously top $ would not be given to those interested because people would just dump cues they have been trying to sell with no intention of getting them back.

Lets use southwest cues as an example.
On the average low end $2200-$4000+ depending on the cue for a southwest cue in todays market.

So you have a southwest cue that you can sell for $3200 but need cash asap. Would a $2500 loan quick be out of the question with a few stipulations?

1) ship cue for inspection

if everything checks out (cue condition)

2) both parties sign contract and cash is wired/sent.

3) person pawning the cue has 9 months to pay back the loan + 5%. No required monthly payments but the flexibility to pay what you can when you can. (im told receipts will be given)

so with this scenario of a $2500 loan the person who pawned the cue has to pay back $2625 + return shipping . Obviously if 9 months pass and the loan isnt paid in full the cue would be kept and eventually be sold.

So lets hear some opinions. Pros - cons?
Not even sure if this has been tried before but its quite possible this could be an option for people in the future.

***note*** i have nothing to do with this idea. I am posting for an older gentleman in my area who has been around the game for 30+ years and just wanted some feedback whether its good or bad.

I actually think this is not a terrible business idea, but I do think it's a better idea for an existing, experienced dealer to try. I see it as a small sideline business, with low margins and volume. It may lead to other types of collectibles, which have more growth.

It takes quite a bit of experience to value and authenticate cues, spot fakes, etc. Definitely loan less of the market value and charge more interest, otherwise it won't be very profitable. You will also need insurance for anything taken into your possession and I suggest a fireproof safe.

Have you ever seen this? http://www.epawnatl.com/index.html

PhilosopherKing · Apr 23, 2016

Besides making little business sense as packaged, the process just wouldn't be fast enough for the person needing the loan... Most people wouldn't even have the money to ship the cue to you.

Scott Lee · Apr 23, 2016

One of the pawn shop guys here on Azb takes cues on pawn...but the vig is 25% after 30 days.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

skins said:
Your idea gives too much money AND intrest rate should be 10% MONTHLY.

Also he'd have to carry some hefty insurance because he'd be resposible for any damages to the item. And there WOULD be damage claims.

As a one time thing to help out someone, sure, but for a business, nope.

Bavafongoul · Apr 23, 2016

Well, that's a little steeper than bank credit card rates & is understandable since pawn shops are generally the last resort......they know it and have total control over all terms & conditions of hypothecation.

Scott Lee · Apr 24, 2016

Matt...It's 25% per month! That's a lot more than credit card rates, which average 2-3% per month. However he takes all the risks as well.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Bavafongoul said:
Well, that's a little steeper than bank credit card rates & is understandable since pawn shops are generally the last resort......they know it and have total control over all terms & conditions of hypothecation.

Type79 · Apr 24, 2016

TATE said:
I actually think this is not a terrible business idea, but I do think it's a better idea for an existing, experienced dealer to try. I see it as a small sideline business, with low margins and volume. It may lead to other types of collectibles, which have more growth.

It takes quite a bit of experience to value and authenticate cues, spot fakes, etc. Definitely loan less of the market value and charge more interest, otherwise it won't be very profitable. You will also need insurance for anything taken into your possession and I suggest a fireproof safe.

Have you ever seen this? http://www.epawnatl.com/index.html

Good points but I can't imagine getting involved with pawning cues from players without any money in the first place. I will paraphrase Hunter S. Thompson.

"“The world of trading in pool cues is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

Cue pawn - opinions wanted

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