Black Crown 2 vs Diamond pool table

What is the 9 foot gonna set u back delivered to Oz ?
R u gonna set it up ? (install slates & bed cloth)
Rail cloth installed at factory ?

For specs I'd get 4.5" pockets.
Shelf depth & pocket angles - ur gonna have to do some research there - what do u normally play on ? do u like it ? copy those specs perhaps ?

Cheers.

Wait til you can afford the Diamond

I don't work on the Black Crowns because they're to cheaply built for my liking.

If you can afford it, go for the Diamond table. If you can't, save up, you will be happy you did.
Black Crowns are good if you can get them for a super cheap price (like $6-700 used and mint)

goldball said:

Its not just more than double the price but the wait, Dymondwood isnt in production yet, also the Australian importers are not getting any new orders from businesses because of the dollar, so they are hoping to have an order by fourth quarter next year.
Will Diamond sell it directly to me at trade price?

RKC, is the build quality of the Black Crown 2 really bad? Not worth getting?
Are there any new tables that are good for a reasonable price?
Theres no used American tables here, so whatever it is, I will have to order from a place that will deliver here and then get an installer.

The Gold Crown 5 is about 20k here

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Import taxes screw everything up don't they:angry: call Brian direct @ 812-288-7665 ask him to solve your problem of getting a Diamond, they've shipped tables to your country before. Or send him an email to Bmiller@diamondbilliardproducts, com

I have never been able to get a response from Canada Billiards about the source of Black Crown cushions.

There is a huge difference in the weight of the tables related to:
Thickness of slate - 30 mm vs 1 inch
Quality and size of wood (or lack of wood) - Frame 2 1/4 inches on Black Crown, much more substantial on Diamond

The Diamond is far better designed.
Presumably has better cushions.

Diamond would never consider what the Black Crown offers
Score counter (optional) :
Two built-in, professional-style score counters upon request.
http://canadabillard.com/black_crown_ii/p2018.aspx

A new Diamond, compared to a slightly used Diamond a couple of years older, has:
Better pocket leather (won't mark balls)
Improved cushion installation
Better slate installation (steel plates joining slates)

The two tables are not similar in quality.
The price of the Black Crown, built in Canada, has become more attractive to you because the Canadian dollar is subject to the same economic storms that are jacking up the price of a Diamond in Australian dollars.

So you have to do the cost benefit analysis and consider budget constraints.

Would a Diamond have greater resale value down the road to offset the difference in price - suspect the answer is yes.

Diamond sells tables used in tournaments at reduced prices
They brought tables into Toronto for a tournament earlier this year.
I have no idea if any are still available in Toronto, but it might be a way around the currency decline of the past 6 months.

goldball said:

Its not just more than double the price but the wait, Dymondwood isnt in production yet, also the Australian importers are not getting any new orders from businesses because of the dollar, so they are hoping to have an order by fourth quarter next year.
Will Diamond sell it directly to me at trade price?

RKC, is the build quality of the Black Crown 2 really bad? Not worth getting?
Are there any new tables that are good for a reasonable price?
Theres no used American tables here, so whatever it is, I will have to order from a place that will deliver here and then get an installer.

The Gold Crown 5 is about 20k here

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I know a guy with 2 Gold Crown 5s, he'd take 8k for the pair, or 4500 a piece

Forgive me, I don't know how the import and tax laws work...

Could you have a reputable table mechanic from the US ship you a used Gold Crown that they refurbished with new cushions? But since it was lets say 30 yrs old, its "book value" might be 500 USD. (But you'd pay them maybe 3000 USD) Would that help the import fees, and get you a great commercial table for substantially less?

goldball said:

The Black Crown 2 is cheaper to begin with, plus how you said the canadian dollar isnt that much stronger than here.
The 3 piece slate is slightly thicker on the Diamond, but they also use 1 inch slate, so I dont think it will make that much difference to playability.
Im not expecting the Black Crown to be on the same level as the Diamond, but was hoping with their willingness to customise, it will play on a similar level.
They told me their cushions are like the Gold Crowns.
I considered the Gabriel Sentinel as well, but its just as expensive to import as the Diamond, so was looking for cheaper options.
In terms of resale value, Im not really concerned as theres no real market for it here to begin with. Only a handful of 9 foot Diamonds have been sold here.
Majority of people havent heard of American pool rules, let alone Diamond.

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They're not even built close to a Gold Crown in structure, which even used is a far better built table.

goldball said:

Its not just more than double the price but the wait, Dymondwood isnt in production yet, also the Australian importers are not getting any new orders from businesses because of the dollar, so they are hoping to have an order by fourth quarter next year.
Will Diamond sell it directly to me at trade price?

RKC, is the build quality of the Black Crown 2 really bad? Not worth getting?
Are there any new tables that are good for a reasonable price?
Theres no used American tables here, so whatever it is, I will have to order from a place that will deliver here and then get an installer.

The Gold Crown 5 is about 20k here

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Like I said, I won't work on them. I don't like the use of cheap hardware, sub part frames, lightweight structure. Everyone trying to sell a commercial pool table always try to sell there's off the back of another table, like "just as good as a Gold Crown"....but that only turns out in the exterior look of the table, and that's all a buyer sees, because the buyer don't have a clue as to what to look for in the frame or design to judge the table to another...until it's been bought! Saunier-Wilhelm in their day was marketed as just as good as a Gold Crown too, and they're just as much a junk pool table as all the rest.of them. On a side note, you don't see any table manufacturer going around today bragging that their pool tables are just as good as a Diamond, do you? There's only 2 pool tables on the planet as far as I'm concerned worth investing money in, as a commercial pool table, and it's either a Diamond, or a rebuilt Gold Crown. I don't even care for the Gabriel 9fts for that matter, but I do have some customers who own them that I've taken the extra time needed to make sure the slates stay level on.

goldball said:

Its not just more than double the price but the wait, Dymondwood isnt in production yet, also the Australian importers are not getting any new orders from businesses because of the dollar, so they are hoping to have an order by fourth quarter next year.
Will Diamond sell it directly to me at trade price?

RKC, is the build quality of the Black Crown 2 really bad? Not worth getting?
Are there any new tables that are good for a reasonable price?
Theres no used American tables here, so whatever it is, I will have to order from a place that will deliver here and then get an installer.

The Gold Crown 5 is about 20k here

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All pool tables have flaws in their design in one way or another, some just a lot more than others, even Diamond's. There really is no such thing as the perfect pool table, but there sure is such a thing as less flaws than anyone else's pool tables built, but those sub standard manufacturers so don't want the buyers to be aware of that when they're trying to sell you one of their pool tables!!!

goldball said:

They told me their cushions are like the Gold Crowns.

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I contacted a local mechanic a few years ago for a quote on overhauling a table, specifying a specific brand of cushions.
Mechanic provided a quote specifying Canada Billiards brand cushions, a savings of at least 50%.
In the long haul it would be false economy, and questionable performance.
The mechanic did not get the job.

goldball said:

Majority of people havent heard of American pool rules

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Aint that the truth....

Aussie pub rules - bleh !!!

goldball said:

I play on aussie made tables and I dont like the angles at all.

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Aussie made tables ?? What brand / type & where ?
I've played on Brunswicks at Wembley in Sydney. (Seemed like a base model Brunswick - individual "bolt on" legs) - well, they had a Brunswick badge - maybe they are counterfeits ? played ok imo - but im just a banger.

goldball said:

Ive tried the Diamond and did like it.

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Where did u play on a diamond ? Was it in Oz ?

goldball said:

Its going to be about half the price, around 5k

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'alltablesports' sell a Yalin BCN for $5K (delivered & installed ?)

I looked at them but got one locally instead brand new (last one - old stock / old style - chinese no name cheapie - "uylin" rubber is the only label) for $3k delivered & installed. they were hack installers btw - grrrr.
Its doesn't look as nice as the bcn but prolly doesnt play any worse than the bcn would. (no way to compare playability pre-purchase of the both of them unfortunately - neither were fully setup for playing / testing in their respective showrooms - amateur ville - the ozzie pool table sales business)

Cheers.

Is American pool rarely played in Australia? What about the other games? Snooker, 3 Cushion?