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best way to hit straight-in out ball?
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evergruven
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best way to hit straight-in out ball? - 01-07-2020, 03:55 AM

level table, fair balls and cloth, etc.

short shot and from distance
where do you hit the cue ball?
and with what speed?


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Patrick Johnson
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01-07-2020, 04:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
level table, fair balls and cloth, etc.

short shot and from distance
where do you hit the cue ball?
and with what speed?
If it’s straight in you have to hit a stop shot, right? Otherwise I’d roll the CB.

pj
chgo
  
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evergruven
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01-07-2020, 05:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
If it’s straight in you have to hit a stop shot, right? Otherwise I’d roll the CB.

pj
chgo
right..should have added "and make the object ball only"

rolling it in sounds good..
to me that's just above center, with a controlled but smooth stroke
not soft enough to be uncomfortable, not hard enough to scratch
et toi?


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"

Last edited by evergruven; 01-07-2020 at 05:31 AM.
  
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Sunchaser
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01-07-2020, 05:27 AM

Short shot medium speed just below center
Long shot same speed and slightly lower

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01-07-2020, 07:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
level table, fair balls and cloth, etc.

short shot and from distance
where do you hit the cue ball?
and with what speed?
Stop-shot with a little speed to it. Don't want to slo-roll it or slam it either. Tad below center and send it in.
  
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Bob Jewett
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01-07-2020, 08:24 AM

If you do play it as a stop shot be careful to have no side spin on the cue ball. Follow or draw (vs. stun) will reduce the amount of throw for a given amount of side spin. This is more important as the object ball is farther from the pocket -- one degree of throw is insignificant if the ball is six inches from the pocket but is a killer if the ball is six diamonds from the pocket.


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Patrick Johnson
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01-07-2020, 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Follow or draw (vs. stun) will reduce the amount of throw for a given amount of side spin.
Yes - I would have recommended some draw if not for the fact that it has to be hit harder than a stop shot. I guess the math for that tradeoff is different for different players.

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01-07-2020, 09:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunchaser View Post
Short shot medium speed just below center
Long shot same speed and slightly lower

Im no pro instructor full disclosure
this is how i do it.


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01-07-2020, 09:53 AM

Stop shot!

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Patrick Johnson
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01-07-2020, 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
rolling it in sounds good..
to me that's just above center, with a controlled but smooth stroke
not soft enough to be uncomfortable, not hard enough to scratch
et toi?
Does "short shot and from distance" mean the OB is near the pocket and the CB is far away from the OB? If so, I'd avoid follow unless there's at least a little cut angle (to avoid scratching).

A smoothly rolling CB (hit about 80% of max follow) is my favorite "safe" hit - if the OB isn't straight in and close to the pocket.

pj
chgo
  
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evergruven
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01-07-2020, 02:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Does "short shot and from distance" mean the OB is near the pocket and the CB is far away from the OB? If so, I'd avoid follow unless there's at least a little cut angle (to avoid scratching).

A smoothly rolling CB (hit about 80% of max follow) is my favorite "safe" hit - if the OB isn't straight in and close to the pocket.

pj
chgo
sorry for the opposite of clarity, pat
I originally meant short and long shots
for example, I would be less hesitant to hit the cb with bottom up close
than at distance
but you make a great point
how far away is the cb from ob
how far are each from pocket, rail, etc.?
all variables have an effect
and should be considered

I'm curious about shooting just below center
that is to avoid scratching, I guess?
and it throws the object ball into the pocket?
but in terms of shooting straight, is that the best place to hit the cb?
I can hit that shot ok, but as bob mentioned,
isn't the chance of sidespin increased, hitting that way?
especially at distance

and might it easier to avoid sidespin hitting above center
because it's easier to see the tip?
altho hitting low we can use the cloth as a background to reference the tip
so..

thanks for stopping by my brain, and of course, for all for the replies


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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Patrick Johnson
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01-07-2020, 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
I'm curious about shooting just below center
that is to avoid scratching, I guess?
Yes, but depending on the distance, etc. you might have to hit the CB higher/lower, firmer/softer, etc. It's more clear to talk about what you want the CB to be doing when it hits the OB. Here's a diagram about that.

To avoid following the OB into the pocket on a straight-in shot, you want to avoid follow, so you want one of the results on the left side of the diagram - that means hitting below center, but how low and how hard depend on the distance and other conditions.

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Quote:
in terms of shooting straight, is that the best place to hit the cb?
I can hit that shot ok, but as bob mentioned,
isn't the chance of sidespin increased, hitting that way?
especially at distance
The chance (or amount) of side spin isn't increased, but the effect of it is - it creates more throw that might make you miss.

Quote:
and might it easier to avoid sidespin hitting above center
because it's easier to see the tip?
Maybe, but the better reason to hit a little high is so the CB will start right off rolling instead of sliding - that tends to decrease both swerve and OB throw. You can't always do it, but you always want to.

Quote:
thanks for stopping by my brain
Hope we didn't leave a mess.

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 01-09-2020 at 07:22 PM.
  
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evergruven
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01-08-2020, 02:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Maybe, but the better reason to hit a little high is so the CB will start right off rolling instead of sliding - that tends to decrease both swerve and OB throw. You can't always do it, but you always want to.


Hope we didn't leave a mess.

pj
chgo
that diagram is killer..very cool to see that info. mapped out in such a way
again, rolling the cb makes sense to me
I also wonder about skids/roll off
doesn't drawing into the ob help prevent those things?
if so, are we not doing that because the threat of swerve/throw effects aren't worth the risk?
it's certainly a mess upstairs, but a good one, I think- thanks for contributing to it


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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01-08-2020, 05:20 AM

question for patrick or anyone else
if you use draw that puts follow on the the object ball so the object ball is rolling sooner
if you use follow on the cue ball that puts draw on the object ball initially which pushes the object ball down on the object ball on the initial contact
wouldnt that cause a slight increased chance for skid??

Last edited by bbb; 01-08-2020 at 05:22 AM.
  
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01-08-2020, 05:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
question for patrick or anyone else
if you use draw that puts follow on the the object ball so the object ball is rolling sooner
if you use follow on the cue ball that puts draw on the object ball initially which pushes the object ball down on the object ball on the initial contact
wouldnt that cause a slight increased chance for skid??
If there’s a chalk smudge at the contact point skid will happen - if not it won’t. A rolling CB might slightly increase the amount of skid, but won’t increase the likelihood.

I don’t think the possibility of skids should be a factor in your choices.

pj
chgo
  
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