How good to win amateur opens?

FeelDaShot · Jun 20, 2018

Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

garczar · Jun 20, 2018

FeelDaShot said:
Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

All solo practice? No playing other people? You're right, unrealistic question.

Cornerman · Jun 20, 2018

Solo practice?

In the words of the great philosopher Michael Tyson, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Freddie <~~~ punched many times

nine_ball6970 · Jun 20, 2018

FeelDaShot said:
Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

Probably beat the ghost 7-2 on average.

RiverCity · Jun 20, 2018

FeelDaShot said:
Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

Unrealistic is about right!

You cant really use the ghost as a barometer to measure overall skill level between a field of players, as it only really measures run out power.

An example to illustrate.
You have a guy who dominates the ghost regularly, but has little or no experience in competition. He is likely to find it a lot easier to run balls in the basement versus in a tournament where people are watching and mistakes lose matches. Players fall to pressure all the time. Not to mention the magic break he figures out on his own table probably wont work the same on a different table etc etc etc.

Just too many variables to use the ghost. If you want to talk Fargo, high 600s to low 700s for most locales IMO. :thumbup:

Black-Balled · Jun 20, 2018

You would need to play well enough to play 7 sets in a row, at least...in a field of 64, without a slip up.

I am a beast at home, but tourney tough is a notably different matter. Like a gun Slinger once told me: nobody cares what you can do at home.

marek · Jun 20, 2018

FeelDaShot said:
Unrealistic, Hypothetical Question:

Let's say you move to a new town where no one knows you. The competition level in this new town is average among all other US cities. You decide to practice alone in your house for years and you don't plan to come out until you are capable of winning a monthly open. For example, 9-ball, $500 added, $40 entry, race to 7/5 on a bar box.

How good would you have to play against the barbox 9-ball ghost until you feel you are ready to leave the house and get the cash?

One thing is to practice alone, but competing against others is totally different animal. If such player really existed (and he wasnt that 1 from a million exception with perfect competition mindset) he would go 2 and out in his first tournament probably because he/she would choke REALLY BADLY. So I would say he would have to get near pro level with his physical game to compensate for total lack of mental game to actually stand a chance..

btown · Jun 20, 2018

I'd say it is unrealistic to know the limitations of others.

Anything is possible if you truly believe.

People don't become the best by listening to what others expect of them.

RiverCity · Jun 20, 2018

btown said:
...Anything is possible if you truly believe....

Good to know, I hatched a plan when I was like 3 years old to headbutt my way through the earth all the way to China. I ditched it when all the haters and naysayers in kindergarten told me I couldnt make it through the earths crust, much less the mantle.

If i only would have followed my dream, I could be eating shrimp lo mein right now. :thumbup:

FeelDaShot · Jun 20, 2018

Damn, you guys are brutal lol. As everyone pointed out, there are many factors which will hold you back if you simply practice alone which is why this is an "Unrealistic Hypothetical Question". But for the sake of discussion, rather than saying why this won't work, how about taking a guess at how well you need to play against the ghost?

I guess I need to clarify a few things in this hypothetical for you guys:

You are not a new player. You are YOU (unless you are already winning opens). The only difference is that you've moved to a new town and no one knows you. So all of the missing competition factors are irrelevant. All you're doing is taking your current skill level and practicing privately and using the ghost as a barometer for how well you play. You can even add in a competition partner if it makes you feel better but in the end you will be comparing you skills based on how you do against the ghost.

btown · Jun 20, 2018

Chuck Fields said:
Good to know, I hatched a plan when I was like 3 years old to headbutt my way through the earth all the way to China. I ditched it when all the haters and naysayers in kindergarten told me I couldnt make it through the earths crust, much less the mantle.

If i only would have followed my dream, I could be eating shrimp lo mein right now. :thumbup:

So you're "that guy" lol.

I mean I knew someone was going to throw out the, "if I believe I can fly"
I'd not suggest that.

I thought we were talking about pool though.

Pool is mental to a certain point. If he practices enough then all that matters is his mental leaving his basement. If he goes to the tournament with the strongest mental game, why can't he win?

You don't have to practice with people just like you don't have to gamble to get good.

You just have to be doing the right things. and have luck on your side!

Michael Andros · Jun 20, 2018

Chuck Fields said:
Good to know, I hatched a plan when I was like 3 years old to headbutt my way through the earth all the way to China. I ditched it when all the haters and naysayers in kindergarten told me I couldnt make it through the earths crust, much less the mantle.

If i only would have followed my dream, I could be eating shrimp lo mein right now. :thumbup:

Exhale, Chuck-ah-rino... your dream is just a short hop to the store away.

RiverCity · Jun 20, 2018

btown said:
So you're "that guy" lol.

I mean I knew someone was going to throw out the, "if I believe I can fly"
I'd not suggest that.

I thought we were talking about pool!

Ok, lets talk pool. Not once in the history of the world has an unknown top level player walked out of his basement shadows into the light of day. Doesn’t happen no matter how many people say “it’s possible”. There are no New Yorks and Arizona’s.

If being “that guy” means that I’m the guy that calls bullshit when I hear it, yep, that’s me. :thumbup:

Bic D · Jun 20, 2018

Not trying to brag here but without a doubt, I'm am the absolute best player......in my house.

A few months ago I started playing serious again as a result of a place up the street getting 2 new tables. They have a $20 or $25 tourny on Mondays and a $10 tourny on Tuesdays. 8-Ball Double elimination.

The first time I played, I told my wife that I was going to win this tourny real quick and I would be home later. About 1.5 hrs later I was back home after 1 win and 2 loses real quick.

I got home and beat the ghost 7-4 and asked myself WTF happened tonight!!!

It took me about 3 weeks to get in the money and another week to win on a Monday night.

IMO, I needed to play against competition...that particular competition in order to beat them. I needed to get use to their bullshit 3 inch non league safeties. I needed to get use to players standing in front of a pocket twirling their stick like a baton etc..

So, IMO, I would imagine that it would be difficult to win a big open tournament without playing against competition in that field.

Cornerman · Jun 20, 2018

btown said:
Pool is mental to a certain point. If he practices enough then all that matters is his mental leaving his basement. If he goes to the tournament with the strongest mental game, why can't he win?

I think you highlighted exactly what everyone is answering, in light-hearted ways. You have no mental game built against opponents if solely practicing at home. Zero. You might have great runout strategy, but without being in the fire, feeling someone hitting back, hearing the noise of other tables and players, having people walk by, and piling on all that requires tournament and toughness, you'll then have no idea what to expect.

The first time he gets surprised, shocked, stung by something that only a tournament situation can bring,

- hey, I didn't know I had to play a girl first
-nobody told me there's a calcutta
-the best player in the town came in?
- I didn't realize we're playing Predator 10-ball rules...
- why didn't my opponent shake my hand when I reached out before the lag
- and why did he growl?
- aren't they going to turn on the A/C?
- where am I supposed to sit when I/m not shooting
- bathroom breaks only when he shoots? Do What???
- This guy actually did runout against me....

But hey, it's just a mental thing at this point, right? No.

Freddie <~~~ lost already

nine_ball6970 · Jun 20, 2018

FeelDaShot said:
Damn, you guys are brutal lol. As everyone pointed out, there are many factors which will hold you back if you simply practice alone which is why this is an "Unrealistic Hypothetical Question". But for the sake of discussion, rather than saying why this won't work, how about taking a guess at how well you need to play against the ghost?

I guess I need to clarify a few things in this hypothetical for you guys:

You are not a new player. You are YOU (unless you are already winning opens). The only difference is that you've moved to a new town and no one knows you. So all of the missing competition factors are irrelevant. All you're doing is taking your current skill level and practicing privately and using the ghost as a barometer for how well you play. You can even add in a competition partner if it makes you feel better but in the end you will be comparing you skills based on how you do against the ghost.

I gave an answer above.

Samiel · Jun 20, 2018

Also consider that many tournaments these days are alternate break. You may lose if you lose the lag/flip. If you can consistently beat the ghost without ball in hand 7-1, 7-2, you may stand a chance. On a bar box with ball in hand against the 9-ball ghost, I used to win easily, but once you take ball in hand out of the equation, I'd say you'd have to be pro level to win consistently without giving up more than a few games due to a dry break or a hidden 1-ball. If you watch a major bar box tournament, it's amazing how many matches are decided based on the break and the first shot afterwards.

FeelDaShot · Jun 20, 2018

nine_ball6970 said:
I gave an answer above.

Yes, thank you sir!

hang-the-9 · Jun 20, 2018

How many players in this tournament, which area of the country, even races? We have a monthly 10 ball tournament on 8 foot Diamonds, if it was an even race there I would guess you need to be an A to A+ player to win in that field, from about 30-40 players. Most tournaments that are not larger regional ones I see, if they were played evenly, you need to be an A player to win if it is an even race. Something like the Joss / Predator tours, the events they have in Hardtimes in CA, you need to be at least an A to cash. Going by Fargo ratings, if you are 650 you have a chance of cashing vs good players, at 700 you may win some. For a random place vs your average pool player, a B player can walk away with a win easily. I think the average Fargo rating across the whole system is like 400 or less.

As an A player, you should feel pretty good you can win in a random place unless you happen to be in some area where a bunch of open and pro players hang out.

marek · Jun 20, 2018

FeelDaShot said:
You are not a new player. You are YOU (unless you are already winning opens). The only difference is that you've moved to a new town and no one knows you. So all of the missing competition factors are irrelevant. All you're doing is taking your current skill level and practicing privately and using the ghost as a barometer for how well you play. You can even add in a competition partner if it makes you feel better but in the end you will be comparing you skills based on how you do against the ghost.

Thats a totally different scenario.

If you take the mental game out of the equation then beating 9b ghost 9:1 maybe 9:2 at worst on average (bar table) is the level you are striving for at your offensive game. And that says nothing about your defence though, you have to be able to play air-tight safeties, good 1/2/3 rail escapes and you have to be very competent with jump stick. Also your break shot has to be controlled and strong enough. Next on the list is good fitness to be able to endure all day and sometimes even night long sessions.
Does this info help?

How good to win amateur opens?

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