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View Poll Results: If you supported The Pool Trust how would you want the money spent?
I would want to Fund Pro Pool Events Only. 0 0%
I would want to Fund Amateur Events and regrow Pool from the bottom up. 0 0%
I Would not donate to support Pool Period! 0 0%
I Would donate only if it went well and was popular. 0 0%
I Would donate if the money was used to produce interest and no principle was ever withdrawn. 0 0%
I Would Gift money to the Pool Trust if properly set up. 0 0%
I Would leave the Pool Trust Money (if set up right) in my will. 0 0%
My company would give money (for a tax deduction.) 0 0%
I would give money (one time) if it were tax deductible. 0 0%
I would give a little money every year (even if not tax deductible) 0 0%
I think this is a good idea. 0 0%
I think this is a bad idea. 0 0%
I would support this idea only if it was deposit only work from interest produced. 0 0%
I would support only if run by a (Non Pool) Trust Management Co. by indissolveable rules 0 0%
I have my own ideas on how this should be done 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

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Would you support a Pool Trust Organization to support Pool, on Pro or Local Level?
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336Robin
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Would you support a Pool Trust Organization to support Pool, on Pro or Local Level? - 09-14-2018, 02:29 AM


It's my nature to try and figure out ways to make things work out and this subject has been one of my favorite topics over the years.
I've talked about it with a lot of people both friends and Industry people. About 8 months ago I had this idea and I've thought about it from time to time.
It could be done because we had an membership organization once before. This idea would be a great asset (for the company that was admin over it.)
Even with limited participation it could be good for Pool in the US in time. This poll is a fact finding mission to register peoples opinions of it and the
proposed funding options. You can change your votes up until the time you submit your post. Look well to the poll.

The Question:

If we "Pool Players" had a New Membership Organization called "The Pool Trust" and from our donations there was amassed a big pile of money (a foundation)
"that was invested in a Mutual Fund" and from the previous years earnings we funded something for Pool every year.......

What would you want done with the money? (based on the choices in the poll).

"Keep in mind that It is possible to organize this in a way to keep people from misappropriating funds by putting it in a trust with trustees over the account. Once money was paid over to "The Board" there would be accounting for what the money was used for and that would go on report and that report could be posted to a website for all to see."

Aside from the minimum expenses. No deposits could be withdrawn. It would be invested in the market for growth in time proven mutual funds.
It would be a foundation/trust designed to produce funds that would be spent the following year, after the money has already come in (from previous yearly earnings totals).

It would take awhile to build this powerhouse of funds but not as long as you might think due to the number of players and businesses that could get on board.
Before the fund would pay out a minimum level of assets would have to be achieved. Until that level was achieved operating expenses would have to be considered.
After the level was achieved money for operating expenses would have to be considered first each year.

I think its a nice idea, but like anything there are details "that in this case" I think could be worked out so as to make a nice addition to Pool.

There's a lot of Pool Players and their opinions count because Pool Players would have to approve and support it with funds and memberships.

There are millions of Pool Players in this country and with their support even if that support came in gradually something of this nature that was well planned could be
really good for pool. (It would need to have the right people behind it.) The integrity of such an undertaking would be important.

Also the foundation trust body could sanction tournaments and tours that kicked in a dollar or two per player per event to the trust, for nearly automatic growth.

It would start slow and people would be skeptical at first. For now its just a Hypothetical New Organization.
It's an idea that needs an opinion. The Poll questions are designed to let you register your opinion with a Yes or a No.

I believe that once is started it would be hard to fail because the mission is for the money to stay in the fund until the point where it produced enough interest to
make payouts. That period of time isn't determined and will depend on support. If money came in slow it can be held to pay the "minimum yearly expenses." (which would be small)
until the fund grew big enough to support itself with interest.

All of the details of the goings on could be posted on a website so people would know what is going on and the progress that is being made. So it would have a lot of eyeball value
to the company doing the admin of it. There are a few details to work out but not enough to say it isn't possible.

On the opinion side:

Some may believe that promoting Pro Pool is the way to go.
Some may feel it would be better to organize Amateur local Pool in the form of
tours and tournaments to promote participation and better play.
Some may think it's a bad idea to start off with and we should let Pool be what it is.

I think its an idea that has some merit because I would like to see Pool self supporting but I'm only one person so we have a Poll with many options and we may raise more questions.

I believe that in time with player support that more people, Corporations, Companies, Cue Makers, Manufacturers, Pro Players and maybe Player Systems
would see the benefit of being known as supporters of the program and just a little from a lot of people would go a very long way.
Can you imagine how much money could be raised if a dollar a cue or any other Pool Product went into something like this?

When the time comes that it starts producing funds to work with, it would create a Permanent second tier of Pool Play and Accomplishment for Players, whether that be Amateur or Pro

The plan of how funds were to be dispersed would be the key. I believe this is fertile ground for someone to come in and do something good for Pool but it would have to be run fairly, true to its purpose and have
a solid structure (Trust/Foundation), organization, policy creation and Articles of Incorporation and transparent operations.

Non Pool People could be in charge of the Account but It would be hard to have Non Pool People in charge of distribution it as they wouldn't be able to devote a lot of time to it aside from deciding when to cut
the check for the past years earnings. So it would have to be spelled out in the Mission Statement specifically what parts of Pool were the priorities ie. (Pro or Amateur) and which came first and have the Board bound to that end by
public display of the Mission Statement. The Board Members might have to change every few years to keep things running smooth. This way the company housing the Admin of the Trust couldn't run it by calling the shots as well but
that doesn't mean that their running it wouldn't have some advantages. People would support that company because they would earn the support by doing the admin of the trust.

A Pool Products company or Internet Service Company would be perfect for this because they have infrastructure in place to deal with it. They have Offices, Secretaries, Accountants and Office Machines and Computers.
The biggest job would be taking deposits and mailing out a membership card or some sort of thing like a key chain that would denote membership or adding the name to the website. It really wouldn't
be necessary to make a big job out of providing perks for the members (but it could to attract people to it) its a donation foundation that gives out tax deductible receipts. Companies might step up and grant discounts to members to get their business. It would have to have its own accounting no matter what kind of company it was. If it were a tax deductible 501-c3 it could grant tax deductible status to donations. So you could request a receipt for that if you wanted to.

It's not a job for one person. There would need to be backup and it wouldn't be able to pay out a lot in expenses, but a Pool Products/Service Company could get a lot of loyalty out of running it.

For instance if a Table Manufacturer were to do this, would you think about purchasing one of their tables?
A cloth manufacturer--this would put them above the rest of cloth industry in the US. What kind of cloth you put on tables might just be the difference
between a room being a Pool Trust Location or not.

I think its a nice idea but its just an ideas that we might talk someone into doing for a shot at changing the future of Pool, "if you would want the future better than it is today."

I'd be willing to be a donor. It doesn't hurt anything to dream that one day Pool could support itself. I'd want my name on the list on the website.

The Poll is confidential and has no ending date. No one will know how you voted. Choose only the choices that apply to you and leave the others blank.

This idea for this thread came from a blog post located here. https://forums.azbilliards.com/blog.php?b=12150

This thread is not an attack on the BCA trade organization. It is merely an opinion on what we could do in order to improve the state of Pool in the US.
Our future is clearly in the hands of the marketplace now, but we could take our future into our own hands by forming our own organization which we
have been without for a number of years. The complete scope of that organization would be determined.

An interesting side note. I learned on 10/12/18 that the BCA will now be running the BEF or Billiard Education Foundation. Perhaps this is sort of an
segue into other things to expand their business model. Would you want them in charge of something like this for Amateurs?

If nothing else we have a little fun out of it. Just take the Poll and Let's see what happens!

Also: Make your comments and Let it rip!

------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poll Questions :

Choose the options that apply to you. Leave the rest blank. You can change your answer during the poll but not after.

How do you feel about this concept and how would you want the money spent?


1. I would want to Fund Pro Pool Events Only. (choose one of these first five choices. Leave the other 4 blank.)

2. I would want to Fund Amateur Events Only to regrow Pool from the bottom up because Amateurs support Pool and keep it alive. Amateurs are going to be the support for Pool so they should have the money.

3. I would want only some money for the Pros.
4. I would want only some money for Amateurs.
5. I would want the money split equally between Pros and Amateurs.

6. I think Pros need to do something for Pool besides just play for the money (support the trust, do something for the membership etc. )

7. I would donate only if it was run right, went well and was popular.
8. I would never donate, none of my business.
9. I would take a chance that it would work out, donate some now and maybe later.

10. My personal donation would be "one time" and at or under $20
11. My personal donation would be "one time" at or below $40
12. My company donation would be "one time" under $200
13. My company donation would be "one time" over $200
14. I would gladly pay a little more yearly on my Az membership to do this if they would handle the donation and give me a new status to reflect my membership and giving level.

15. I am open to discussion on how to do this, just do something.

16. I would approve if a Pool company did the admin for membership but was not in charge of the money in the trust as stated.

17. I would do business with Pool Businesses that supported the trust.

18. I would like to see All Pool Events eligible for Pool Trust Points toward a finals in which a dollar per player went to the trust.

19. I would support it by spreading the word and wanting my room to be a Pool Trust Location.
20. I want a key chain to hang on my cue case so people will know I support the Pool Trust
21. I would attend Pool Trust Tournaments, Schools and Events because I'd like to hang out with like minded people.

22. I think its better to fix Amateur Pool at this point because there are a lot more Amateur Players and they spend the money that keeps Pool alive.
Amateur Players would play more if there was a small pot of added money and low entries and Pool would be more popular helping Room Owners.

23. I would want the activities of such an organization posted to a website.
24. I would want Board Members to change at intervals to prevent problems by election.
25. Since the BCA is now running the BEF. I would be okay with them running this as long as they run it by our rules.


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Last edited by 336Robin; 10-15-2018 at 02:16 AM.
  
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Post #2 Information - 09-22-2018, 06:55 AM

If we/someone organized and created a new Membership Organization that was founded by donations both individual,
and corporate, which produced interest in order to fund good things for Pool. How would you want that money spent?

The funds would be held in trust in a Mutual Fund within a foundation trust and there would be rules present to control how all monies were treated.
The main goal would be to build the trust to the point where all monies spent would be limited to interest earned.
This way everyone would know the rules going in because the operating procedures would be posted to a website.

This is a hypothetical situation and there are several poll questions to answer to provide your feelings on this subject.

What I like about this idea may not appeal to others but once its properly funded the pool of money going into Pool is ongoing forever.
When monies go in, they are not withdrawn, interest only is being spent and the strength of the fund continues to increase every year
as donations/memberships are sold.

When you have something like this relationships can be formed to insure the strength builds and each passing year is better than the one before it.

Obligations from the trust are controlled to allow for down years in money markets.

I will link you to where I go into more detail about how it could be done. Just answer the questions for now.
The Poll is confidential and has no ending date. Vote your conscience and make comments please.

The reason for the idea is that we have no such membership organization and Pool in this country is largely unorganized
existing as a part of the market which hasn't been kind to pool. A membership organization would give us
some say in developing interest and in the future of Pool that we currently don't have. There are several questions which will allow you to
express your true feelings even if you don't agree with any of it.

An interesting development that I learned on 10/12/18 is that the BCA will be running the BEF or Billiard Education Foundation.
If Junior Pool can have an organization then why couldn't Pool in a broader sense do it as well?



Post #2

Some interesting Math to go along with this:

40k people giving a dollar a piece is 40,000 a year. That would run some tournaments but that's not what
I'm talking about at all. 40k a year is a bandaid and wouldn't fix much. However 40k is enough to add some to a lot of Amateur events.

40k x .08% on average is 3,200 dollars of interest per year and enough to take care of some of the legal expenses
but not enough to get it started up. My rough estimate is the first year would be the most expensive and between legal
expenses, admin expenses those bills might be around 10k under certain conditions. So some donations would have to be
earmarked for the expenses in the beginning. Later on the interest would take care of all of it and the expenses lower after
start up expenses are paid, however the board would have to receive something to administrate the foundation.

If those same 40k people did this every year for say 10 yrs that's 400,000 dollars at .08% or 32,000 in money that can be paid out.
More accurately probably 20,000 after the admin costs, travel and some salary for the person or corporation paying the person to run it.

If those same 40k people gave $10 you start out with 400k in the first year! and in 10 yrs that's 4 million. 8 percent of 4 mil is 320,000
thats a lot of money to put into Pool every year and is what's possible if you take a long range approach with creating a foundation.
If you just want to spend the money raised each year, the effect could wear off the minute someone makes a mistake.

You can see where I'm going with this. When Corporations and people get behind funding a foundation designed to promote the betterment
of Pool it would be hard to stop but it must be setup right to prevent problems. I'm a member of an organization that has a foundation and to my
knowledge it works for us just fine. I'm sure if you do some internet searches you'll find this is an idea used by others organizations.

Its real easy to see how a slow growing foundation could be established that in a decade could have millions in its account.
It's also easy to see how this could catch on and be to that level in 5 yrs.

Millions in an foundation trust account could change things a lot for Pool and the question would remain. Would you want to build Pool up
from the Top Down-(Pros) or from the bottom up (Amateurs) ?

If tournaments were sanctioned by the trust body they might get a dollar or two per player. That would add up.
If product manufacturers earmarked some of their items to support the foundation the amounts coming in could be impressive.

The list of supporters could go on and on, who wouldn't want to be known as a sponsor? With the money going into a foundation
with rules set up for success, it would be hard to fail.


"Let your "Stick" do the talking!"

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10-25-2018, 12:07 PM

Bumping this back to the forum


"Let your "Stick" do the talking!"

336Robin
"Improve your shot making forever for $5.99!"


The Target Ball Concept-Aiming,
The Flight of the Cue Ball-Aiming Adjusted for Side Spin,
Robbing the Bank Shot!-Pass Over Banking
Change your game for a couple of Bucks! and
Comes with a lesson!

website:http://aimisthegameinpool.com
  
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