It is illogical to think diamond is responsible for something it has no control over, agreed.
Diamond tables don't seem that great.
- Thread starter Cron
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It is illogical to think diamond is responsible for something it has no control over, agreed.
All this talk about Diamond vs. Gold Crown tables are mostly apple to oranges comparisons. Diamond tables have a great build quality, for what they are. Once they are properly set up they can take a lot of abuse and still play quite well. They are tough to mess up. The Gold Crown actually takes a competent installer. Kudos to the guys behind the Diamond...They realized early that people who work on tables are probably not the sharpest knives in the drawer, usually. Typically they don't have the proper equipment or knowledge to use it. They think a torque wrench is an MMA move, they don't know how to level a table with a three piece slate. They don't know which parts go together, or to mark them when working on several tables simultaneously.
So what most pool halls end up with after a few cloth change cycles are GC with mismatched rails, stripped nuts and inconsistently fastned rails (with no easy solution to fix them) and therefore inconsistently banking cushions, cushions out of geometric specs (sides pushed one way or the other pockets of inconsistent size. The slates are naturally slanted everywhich way, creating rolls that are unpredictable and hard to read. The veneer and woodwork is all bashed up, and the castings are not mounting flush at all. After a decade or two, the castings are probably not even original to the table. Naturally they think this is how a GC plays, when in fact they're playing on hacked up frankentables.
But you know, when the person assembling a GC has a 3 digit IQ, they actually play very nicely. Diamonds are usually very consistent, but they are made with one purpose, to facilitate trick banks. So completely standard pool position shots are made close to impossible to perform in a standard way. Two railers out of the corner come up 2 full diamonds short. That can't be fixed with a torque wrench...The balls are bouncing all over the place, kill shots just don't work, you can't stretch out the angles very much either...But if you have a "stiff" bank on a GC, you can probably make it on a Diamond. Hooray...Too bad the bread and butter shots are all wrong.
So what most pool halls end up with after a few cloth change cycles are GC with mismatched rails, stripped nuts and inconsistently fastned rails (with no easy solution to fix them) and therefore inconsistently banking cushions, cushions out of geometric specs (sides pushed one way or the other pockets of inconsistent size. The slates are naturally slanted everywhich way, creating rolls that are unpredictable and hard to read. The veneer and woodwork is all bashed up, and the castings are not mounting flush at all. After a decade or two, the castings are probably not even original to the table. Naturally they think this is how a GC plays, when in fact they're playing on hacked up frankentables.
But you know, when the person assembling a GC has a 3 digit IQ, they actually play very nicely. Diamonds are usually very consistent, but they are made with one purpose, to facilitate trick banks. So completely standard pool position shots are made close to impossible to perform in a standard way. Two railers out of the corner come up 2 full diamonds short. That can't be fixed with a torque wrench...The balls are bouncing all over the place, kill shots just don't work, you can't stretch out the angles very much either...But if you have a "stiff" bank on a GC, you can probably make it on a Diamond. Hooray...Too bad the bread and butter shots are all wrong.
I know what you're taking about, the Pros playing in the US Open 9 ball event had no control over the cue ball to save their life. And Fuller, he just got LUCKY every time he had to bank a ball!!
I just can't figure out how Fuller was able to run what. 285 balls on a Diamond, as bad as they play according to the AMATEURS that play on them so much!!
There goes glen again. Another poster who is way better than me says dismonds don’t work well for the bread and butter shots and glen shoots him down.
You’ve been doing the same thing for 10 years on here. Anyone who says diamonds don’t play right, instead of trying to get to the root of the issue, you try to shut down the player making the claim. After a while of this, people don’t feel like engaging you anymore.
You’ve been doing the same thing for 10 years on here. Anyone who says diamonds don’t play right, instead of trying to get to the root of the issue, you try to shut down the player making the claim. After a while of this, people don’t feel like engaging you anymore.
I'm picking up 6 Gold Crown 3's for $3000 at the end of the month, try finding ONE Diamond 9ft ProAm for that price. And trust me, when I get them ready for sale, there won't be any GC built that'll out play them.
And if you are going to bring pros up, what about Archer, Schmidt, and Owen, 3 US Open winners, who have made their feelings about the play of diamond tables publicly known for years.
Pros that are at the ends of their careers, when was the last time they won a MAJOR event?
SVB don't complain about Diamond tables....oh yeah, he's still WINNING events!!!
Perhaps your game isn't as consistent as you think. Trust Diamond tables or random amateur? Tough call.
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Filler and us amateurs have different objectives. Fillers objective is to put bread on the table. He'll play on any old thing, as long as he can make money off it. Pros played on Olhausen tables a lot when they sponsored events, even if the pockets played all wrong and they played on "World of leisure" tables in the world championship...They could make money on them, though, so they found ways around it. I'm not interested in finding ways around problems that shouldn't be there to begin with. If you put Filler on the worst table ever made, he'd find a way to run hundreds of balls on it. That shows his talent, not the quality of the table.
If the event has tables with messed up pockets or rails that bank insanely short, amateurs have the option not to go there and many people use that option, to the possible detriment of some tournaments. I know quite a few people that don't want to play on Diamond tables, for various reasons. I know of none that don't want to play on GC's. Sure, I'll play on Diamonds every now and then, because it's fun to do something different, but the novelty wears off. I do think even a lowly amateur, such as myself, has a right to object, when it's claimed that THIS is the way a table should play, when it's different from every other table on the market and in history. If this becomes the standard, then so be it, but it should be a cause of debate and I think it is a legitimate concern when a table plays so differently that the game changes. We've been pushovers for the manufactureres for too long in this game. We let them shorten the table legs, we let them reduce the size, first from 10 to 9, then from 9 to 7...Now these flipper game rails, what will come next, I wonder?
If the event has tables with messed up pockets or rails that bank insanely short, amateurs have the option not to go there and many people use that option, to the possible detriment of some tournaments. I know quite a few people that don't want to play on Diamond tables, for various reasons. I know of none that don't want to play on GC's. Sure, I'll play on Diamonds every now and then, because it's fun to do something different, but the novelty wears off. I do think even a lowly amateur, such as myself, has a right to object, when it's claimed that THIS is the way a table should play, when it's different from every other table on the market and in history. If this becomes the standard, then so be it, but it should be a cause of debate and I think it is a legitimate concern when a table plays so differently that the game changes. We've been pushovers for the manufactureres for too long in this game. We let them shorten the table legs, we let them reduce the size, first from 10 to 9, then from 9 to 7...Now these flipper game rails, what will come next, I wonder?
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What will come next? First, you'll learn something like, tables today have a taller playing surface. Second, you'll realize you're an amateur and accept that fact, instead of thinking pool tables built today have to play at your level of "EASY" play, or maybe, your game just isn't as good as you think it is, and you're not good enough to adapt to all the different playing tables out on the market today....stick with GCs, that's your skill level, then accept.the fact that you were never good enough to compare your skills to the Pros.
What will come next is what has already come. The game of pool has been altered. Even you admit this Glenn. Putting around a table because the balls come off the rails FAST slows the stroke down. Nothing to do with amateur or pro. Has to do with the result. The result is a boring game. No strong strokes. Just everyone slow rolling and medium hitting balls to adjust to a table theirs too springy.
How many times must this be said?
Diamond is a preferred one pocket table. Plain and simple. And one pocket is in vogue. Diamond is not what I consider a fun table to play.
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You know what, I'm very aware of the changes pool has gone through over the last 50 years, and some of them I'm not very happy with. But all of you are unaware of what I'm up to, or working on. I'll give you an example, I just installed and I'm observing a new kind of cloth for pool that is NOT a worsted woolen cloth, it's more like the cloth everyone played on during the 50's to the mid 80's, like the old Steven's 22oz Superweave. That's all I'm saying for now.
I am aware! You told me on the phone. So I do get what you want to do. I support it. I just don’t know if what’s been done can be undone.
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Read your pm
That's the easy part.
And, given his low post count, I think he's been here many times before, probably banned in the past.
I really didn't want to suffer through this thread, but having played pool from the 60s to present, what the hell.
There are good Gold Crowns, but very adjustable and inconsistent through the 3 series. Played on them all. 4s, a bit better. When Diamond came along, they improved the pool table. Flush pockets, ball returns that don't hang up, etc.
When a friend buys a table, it's a Diamond. Case closed.
All the best,
WW
