Ralf Forfeits!???

alstl said:

Truth is, none of the top players are going to get a spot from another top player. They can all beat each other on a given day.

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I'll go ya one better . On any given day, a player that most people have never even heard of can beat a professional in a short race. I've seen it happen many a time in tournaments and on pool streams.

There are literally thousands of "A" or better poolplayers living in America alone. In a short race, if the lesser player is "on" his/her game and the better player is not, it can easily be an upset-in-the-making.

For this reason alone is why I have never been in awe of any poolplayer. I've seen some pretty amazing things from a lot of players both professional and amateur in my many days around the pool culture.

Any two professional players in a match, well, many times the winner is determined on who gets the better rolls. Without that factor, it's a toss-up.

Maniac

jay helfert said:

Beg to differ, I watch him play in several tournaments a year. Ralf is in the upper echelon of tournament pool. There is NOBODY that is a favorite over him and definitely not Corey. There may be players (like Shane, Darren, Lee Vann and Dennis O.) who are near equals, but favorites no. JMHO based on what I see. I am not as swayed by current rankings, as they can shift quickly with one win.

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I never think of Ralf as a power player, but when I've seen him in person he has a surprisingly powerful break - a nice big crack and total cue ball control.

He's an amazing player - the consummate professional. Age will get to him at some point, but not yet.

Chris

Mark Griffin said:

[...]

Corey was asked by an official as the situation unfolded. It was done to expedite the problem because the schedule could be moved around without affecting anyone else.

However, as we looked into the whole situation, we figured out that a POLICY had to be set.

And we did that. In retropsect, Corey should not have been contacted. Corey did nothing wrong.

[...]

Mark Griffin, CEO
CueSports International
Mark Griffin

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You guys --as usual--ran a fantastic series of events.

I agree with others and with you that involving Corey the way you did was a poor decision.

So, looking through that super clear rear-view mirror, one reasonable option was--as you say--have a policy and stick to it.

Another reasonable option, assuming you were contemplating a "special circumstances" exception for the sake of the tournament, was to involve Corey privately rather than publicly. Then if he said he was most comfortable with sticking with the pre-determined rules, it could have come off to the world as you making a decision to stick to your policy.

Nostroke said:

Its also amazing how the 'local champion' who can run out almost at will in the pool hall gets totally annihilated playing a top player when suddenly he cant make a hanger

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Like was said: "On any given day" anything can happen.

Maniac (wasn't insinuating that the Open player was gonna take down the pro on a regular basis, just that sometimes the lesser player is having "his moment in the sun" so to speak.

markpatrick said:

Besides, Corey knows he loses to Ralf 8 out of 10 sets.

Professional courtesy is to be at your match, not come running in 1 minute before the forfeit or 1 minute after.

I have had to disqualify people in our local events due to the same issue before, as a tournament director it sucks. The sobbing and excuses?

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Now thats funny, I don't care who you. Would you like to lay 2-1 odds and take Ralf?

Nostroke said:

Ralf is a great bet in any 8, 9-10ball or straight pool event and besides his shooting/playing ability-3 main reasons

1 He wont make a stupid mistake
2 He wont rattle
3 He wont dog it

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He is a great bet if he doesn't drive anywhere the morning of! :thumbup:

And what about the rest of the players?

mikepage said:

You guys --as usual--ran a fantastic series of events.

I agree with others and with you that involving Corey the way you did was a poor decision.

So, looking through that super clear rear-view mirror, one reasonable option was--as you say--have a policy and stick to it.

Another reasonable option, assuming you were contemplating a "special circumstances" exception for the sake of the tournament, was to involve Corey privately rather than publicly. Then if he said he was most comfortable with sticking with the pre-determined rules, it could have come off to the world as you making a decision to stick to your policy.

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Mike,
I'm disappointed. :wink: Well not really, I understand that private is better than public but I disagree with involving Corey privately or publicly. (Even if there really is any such thing as private".)

You're suggesting that Corey be asked "in private" if he would like to wait for Ralf past the assigned time. You're suggesting that Corey be asked if he is in agreement with breaking the existing rules as set out by the tournament promoter and director. None of this is proper and none of this is fair. This puts Corey in a very difficult situation where he has to make a decision that could very well affect his livelihood, the outcome of the match etc. It's possible that the waiting alone could throw Corey off of his game and that Corey might play worse than his average level of play because of the waiting and not knowing.

Any player may have a reason for not wanting to wait for another player and it may or may not have something to do with other than he is afraid of his opponent. The waiting player may also have a good reason for waiting but that waiting could affect the rest of the players who have agreed to play by the rules.

The bottom line is ANY player should not have to make these type of decisions. It's just not fair to them and the truth is, IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE REST OF THE PLAYERS, either.

The truth is the rules are the rules and everyone should have to follow the rules. Exceptions create more problems than they solve.

JoeyA

Ralf forfeit

CSI had not had a similar situation before.

We determined this decision would be creating a policy decision.

We made the decision- realizing it did create a policy.

End of story.

This situation had a very narrow time line. I believe Ralf had the accident around 10:30. I became aware of it around 11:45. We had a meeting around 11:45 (establishing the policy) and we talked to Ralf around 12:00. His match was at 12:30.

We made the correct final decision. That is what is important.

Mark griffin

Mark Griffin said:

CSI had not had a similar situation before.

We determined this decision would be creating a policy decision.

We made the decision- realizing it did create a policy.

End of story.

This situation had a very narrow time line. I believe Ralf had the accident around 10:30. I became aware of it around 11:45. We had a meeting around 11:45 (establishing the policy) and we talked to Ralf around 12:00. His match was at 12:30.

We made the correct final decision. That is what is important.

Mark griffin

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What more needs to be said?

CSI = WINNING!!!!!!

jay helfert said:

Beg to differ, I watch him play in several tournaments a year. Ralf is in the upper echelon of tournament pool. There is NOBODY that is a favorite over him and definitely not Corey. There may be players (like Shane, Darren, Lee Vann and Dennis O.) who are near equals, but favorites no. JMHO based on what I see. I am not as swayed by current rankings, as they can shift quickly with one win.

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HOLD ON...I don't believe Shane is a "near equal" to Ralf Souquet..I beg to differ..Shane is playing 9-10 ball better then anyone in the game right now. Equals they are not. I can't argue as strong a case with Corey although I do still feel he's a better 9-10 ball player then Ralf but people have different opinions. But Shane's record and dominance the past 2 years puts him as the favorite in every rotation tournament he enters. I was watching a stream where John Schmidt said the same exact thing..the quote went something like "its like the Nike commercial where everyones having a great time and then Tiger walks in the locker room and everyone shuts up. Shane is that respected right now..and thats coming from Schmidt who I know, you know can play a bit..as I ordered the "High Stakes Pool" DVD from you basically to watch him shoot. He said this at Coreys Tournament in 09 in the finals between Corey and Archer..right before the Mosconi Cup...where Shane beat Souquet handily to clinch the cup for Team USA.

Palmerfan said:

I don't believe for one second that Ralph Souquet is a better 9 or 10 Ball player then Corey..He used to be but not now. And it seems that they are all looking up at Shane. I don't know about the Filipinos but the Americans and Europeans take a back seat to Van Boening right now..he's playing out of his mind and a MONSTER at 9 or 10 ball. Corey isn't too far behind and there are a few in between like Mika or Hohman before Souquet gets in there. Check out the World Rankings..it isn't close between Corey and Ralf and thats not based on opinion..its based on points.

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Ralph is definitely a better 9 or 10 ball player than Corey and as far as Shane goes there are alot of Asian as well as European players that play better than Shane.

Palmerfan said:

HOLD ON...I don't believe Shane is a "near equal" to Ralf Souquet..I beg to differ..Shane is playing 9-10 ball better then anyone in the game right now. Equals they are not. I can't argue as strong a case with Corey although I do still feel he's a better 9-10 ball player then Ralf but people have different opinions. But Shane's record and dominance the past 2 years puts him as the favorite in every rotation tournament he enters. I was watching a stream where John Schmidt said the same exact thing..the quote went something like "its like the Nike commercial where everyones having a great time and then Tiger walks in the locker room and everyone shuts up. Shane is that respected right now..and thats coming from Schmidt who I know, you know can play a bit..as I ordered the "High Stakes Pool" DVD from you basically to watch him shoot. He said this at Coreys Tournament in 09 in the finals between Corey and Archer..right before the Mosconi Cup...where Shane beat Souquet handily to clinch the cup for Team USA.

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I have to disagree. Shane's game is nothing short of amazing, but I think Ralf is the better player. You mention Shane winning against Souquet in the Mosconi Cup, and there's no denying that that was a great feat...but it was a race to 6.

If Ralf and Shane matched up in a TAR style match (race to 100, 10 ball), I think Ralf would win by 15 games.

The man simply doesn't have emotions to get in the way of his game, and Shane doesn't have the decades of winning experience that Ralf has. Ralf is at the point where age hasn't yet diminished his play, and he has the experience to know that he can beat anyone.

Shane may get there one day; I'm not posting this to dog him in any way, but he's not there yet, imo.

Ralf has performed too consistently well, for too long to make him an underdog to anyone.

Ralf no doubt is an elite player but Ralf does not gamble so we have no idea how he perform in a race to 100. It is a different animal than tournament play.

Palmerfan said:

I don't believe for one second that Ralph Souquet is a better 9 or 10 Ball player then Corey..He used to be but not now. And it seems that they are all looking up at Shane. I don't know about the Filipinos but the Americans and Europeans take a back seat to Van Boening right now..he's playing out of his mind and a MONSTER at 9 or 10 ball. Corey isn't too far behind and there are a few in between like Mika or Hohman before Souquet gets in there. Check out the World Rankings..it isn't close between Corey and Ralf and thats not based on opinion..its based on points.

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Im sorry to ask this again, but you didnt reply and posted again in this thread, in which rankings isnt it even close between Ralf and Corey?

Which one?

ContinentalGT said:

Ralph is definitely a better 9 or 10 ball player than Corey and as far as Shane goes there are alot of Asian as well as European players that play better than Shane.

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Well we can simply agree to disagree as nothing can be proven right now..its a matter of opinion. But i'm certainly curious to know who the Europeans are since you stated "alot" of Europeans play better...which Euros might they be..just curious..since Varner usually puts out Shane as his singles main player to face any Euro in Mosconi play...which Euro "plays better" then Shane?

Rooolfl said:

Im sorry to ask this again, but you didnt reply and posted again in this thread, in which rankings isnt it even close between Ralf and Corey?

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Google "pro pool rankings" and go through the first page and see where all players have been ranked from 07-11...I don't post things I don't read myself as it can easily be looked up in 3 minutes. I get that you feel like Souquet is some sort of world beater..thats great, I don't deny he's a fantastic player but in my opinion not as good as Corey right now and even further away from Shane.

It is my belief watching and reading about the 9-10 ball tournaments that Shane is taking down that he is the best of the American/European Pool scene. I am not talking Filipinos...I am talking USA and Europe only. I do believe Shane is the man to beat going into the tournament and I have heard other pro's say the same thing. I'm certainly not going out on a limb here. And I honestly believe that its a closer comparison with Mika and Shane then Ralf and Shane.

But again thats how I see it and others can see it differently..but this nonsense of "Corey knew Ralf would beat him 8 out of 10 sets"..that sort of idiocy cant just let fly in here without being challenged.