World #2 Jayson Shaw joins the DigiCue Team

9andout

Gunnin' for a 3 pack!!
Silver Member
Shane. Seller. Gold member. Nice.
......
Shinobi got it. ;)
Just an observation lol
 
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Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I THINK there is a certain amount of time you have to freeze after stroke or it will buzz. Try freezing for a moment after shot. I could be wrong, but I swear it buzzed less often when I focus on that

Yes there is. After you get the timing down, it isn't as dramatic and you can get up after the shot naturally.
However almost all my bad hits are always instantaneous with no delay, letting me know it wasn't body movement after the shot, but the stroke through the ball was off.

Also, your grip hand pressure on the stroke follow through, if you are gripping to tight on impact, that will move the butt just out of line with the virtual plane and trigger a buzz.
So watch your grip hand and it's not too tight.
 

nataddrho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the original DigiCue, the most common reason players get a buzz is that they do not freeze long enough after the shot. You must stay perfectly still for 1 full second (which seems like an eternity if you are not used to it).

But why does it matter how still I stay as long as I can run out, especially after the CB is already gone? Who freezes that long anyway?

I want the DigiCue to condition players to tame that natural anticipation of collision. I've seen that the anticipation of watching where the CB or OB go after impact manifests itself into "starting to look" during the forward stroke, which moves the cue slightly off line... not enough to play poorly, but enough to be inconsistent. Once you give your body a chance to learn the muscle memory of perfect stillness, then you can probably start looking around a bit more without compromising your stance/alignment.

My goal was to create a device that let players experience what is needed to do this, and to benchmark that feeling in some way.

The DigiCue also measures steering, straightness, jab strokes, etc, but freezing as I described above is the big one.

...

(Follow up: looking at the code, it appears that some of the orientating vectors are compromised when performing very jacked up shots or masse's, and you will probably get a buzz all the time. This is because the motion of the cue no longer is orthogonal to gravity)
 
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Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Round 3 - Fight!

I'm back and after a week I have a lot more to say about this little gadget.

It's a keeper!

OK, first of all the 1 second pause at the end of the stroke doesn't bother me at all. Not at all. I'm almost positive that since I've started using this device I haven't buzzed once because of jumping up too soon. I think it's important to finish on your shots. But I have to move on.

As you'll recall I was shooting straight in stop shots and buzzing a lot. Well, for the last week I've become borderline obsessed with the Digi, and have put in 5-10 sessions lasting from 30-90 minutes each. I've kind of gone to war with this thing.

My third session I got so I was hitting those half court stop shots without buzzing with a closed bridge. Most of the time. But here's the mystery: EVERY TIME I USED AN OPEN BRIDGE I BUZZED! Closed bridge, no buzz. Open bridge, buzz. Again, and again.

I couldn't figure out what I was doing differently. I tried alternating shots and just let myself become aware of any differences. It didn't seem like there were any.

So then I set up with a closed bridge, but while down on the shot opened up my bridge hand. AHA! This was strange. When I tried to switch to an open bridge the sighting wasn't right. It seems that my open bridge would be too far to the left. Like it was under a different line of sight. Interesting.

I played around with a slightly different shape of open hand bridge that allowed me to keep my line of sight the same. Lo and behold I hit a few shots open handed that didn't buzz. Not many, but a few. I was still alternating between closed bridge and open bridge.

Shot after shot. Hour after hour. I am just listening to music and becoming absorbed in the changes. Some days I catch a little gear and can hit 3-4 in a row with an open bridge without buzzing, then it goes away and I can't duplicate it.

Finally last session I have a break through. I notice a little adjustment to the way I set up that allows me to sight the ball with an open hand bridge and keep my swing free, so everything looks and feels the same as a closed bridge. Shazam! NO BUZZING. It was like it is literally solved. Not even an issue anymore.

At least not on this one shot! When I shoot other types of shots I still buzz. Guess what - this is great! I can iron these wrinkles out one at a time.

Now for the question. Does this actually make you better? Well, it's too early for me to say for sure. But I will tell you what happened AFTER my practice sessions. I felt like I couldn't miss! It reminds me of playing on a 6 x 12 snooker table for a couple of hours. Afterwards the 9 foot pockets look like buckets and you just feel like you can rip anything in the center of the hole. That's how I felt after working with DigiCue. I felt like my stroke was so straight, strong, and powerful, and my timing was down, that basically I felt I had the power reserves to do anything I needed at any time and could kind of run over the table. Sure, sure, I was a little off balance working this into my game, my cue ball position and speed suffered a little as I was playing with some of the things I had drilled on. At first. But yesterday I beat the 10 ball ghost 5-0 (short set, it was late) and I feel very, very comfortable putting this all together.

Now I've got to put the DigiCue down for a couple of weeks. I'm going to the US Open on 10/22 and from now until I get back I'm done tinkering with my game, I just want to run open balls, spar with people for a few sets, get my arm loose. When I get back I'm going back to work on my stroke for sure.

Is the DigiCue for everyone? Of course not. I think you have to be passionate enough about the game to do some hard work. It can't discourage you that you buzz, it has to excite you that you have room to grow. If this is you and you're willing to put in a few hours as I have, well, I would strongly recommend this device. Thanks OB.
 

nataddrho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm back and after a week I have a lot more to say about this little gadget.

It's a keeper!

OK, first of all the 1 second pause at the end of the stroke doesn't bother me at all. Not at all. I'm almost positive that since I've started using this device I haven't buzzed once because of jumping up too soon. I think it's important to finish on your shots. But I have to move on.

As you'll recall I was shooting straight in stop shots and buzzing a lot. Well, for the last week I've become borderline obsessed with the Digi, and have put in 5-10 sessions lasting from 30-90 minutes each. I've kind of gone to war with this thing.

My third session I got so I was hitting those half court stop shots without buzzing with a closed bridge. Most of the time. But here's the mystery: EVERY TIME I USED AN OPEN BRIDGE I BUZZED! Closed bridge, no buzz. Open bridge, buzz. Again, and again.

I couldn't figure out what I was doing differently. I tried alternating shots and just let myself become aware of any differences. It didn't seem like there were any.

So then I set up with a closed bridge, but while down on the shot opened up my bridge hand. AHA! This was strange. When I tried to switch to an open bridge the sighting wasn't right. It seems that my open bridge would be too far to the left. Like it was under a different line of sight. Interesting.

I played around with a slightly different shape of open hand bridge that allowed me to keep my line of sight the same. Lo and behold I hit a few shots open handed that didn't buzz. Not many, but a few. I was still alternating between closed bridge and open bridge.

Shot after shot. Hour after hour. I am just listening to music and becoming absorbed in the changes. Some days I catch a little gear and can hit 3-4 in a row with an open bridge without buzzing, then it goes away and I can't duplicate it.

Finally last session I have a break through. I notice a little adjustment to the way I set up that allows me to sight the ball with an open hand bridge and keep my swing free, so everything looks and feels the same as a closed bridge. Shazam! NO BUZZING. It was like it is literally solved. Not even an issue anymore.

At least not on this one shot! When I shoot other types of shots I still buzz. Guess what - this is great! I can iron these wrinkles out one at a time.

Now for the question. Does this actually make you better? Well, it's too early for me to say for sure. But I will tell you what happened AFTER my practice sessions. I felt like I couldn't miss! It reminds me of playing on a 6 x 12 snooker table for a couple of hours. Afterwards the 9 foot pockets look like buckets and you just feel like you can rip anything in the center of the hole. That's how I felt after working with DigiCue. I felt like my stroke was so straight, strong, and powerful, and my timing was down, that basically I felt I had the power reserves to do anything I needed at any time and could kind of run over the table. Sure, sure, I was a little off balance working this into my game, my cue ball position and speed suffered a little as I was playing with some of the things I had drilled on. At first. But yesterday I beat the 10 ball ghost 5-0 (short set, it was late) and I feel very, very comfortable putting this all together.

Now I've got to put the DigiCue down for a couple of weeks. I'm going to the US Open on 10/22 and from now until I get back I'm done tinkering with my game, I just want to run open balls, spar with people for a few sets, get my arm loose. When I get back I'm going back to work on my stroke for sure.

Is the DigiCue for everyone? Of course not. I think you have to be passionate enough about the game to do some hard work. It can't discourage you that you buzz, it has to excite you that you have room to grow. If this is you and you're willing to put in a few hours as I have, well, I would strongly recommend this device. Thanks OB.

Love this. Some level of dedication is a prerequisite to maximize the DigiCue's potential, but it does pay off. These are the types of things I like to see. Excellent!

Nate
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm back and after a week I have a lot more to say about this little gadget.

It's a keeper!

Thanks OB.

Just want to drop a thanks to Tin Man for igniting my use of the Digicue with your comments and review.

I went at the DigiCue hard this week and I just got 7 for 10 on level 3. My new high score!

Isn't it really the mini successes that keep us going with this game? Little mountain tops like this get me charged up for more.

Thanks again Tin Man and OB for a great device.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To Tin Man:

Also try dropping your elbow to make the tip move in a straight line, as opposed to an arc if you have more of a pendulum stroke.

It picks up vertical deviations from a perfectly straight line and will buzz. I narrowed this down on my stroke as I was testing the beta Blue version this week, and that was what kept causing mine to buzz. YMMV:)
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To Tin Man:

Also try dropping your elbow to make the tip move in a straight line, as opposed to an arc if you have more of a pendulum stroke.

It picks up vertical deviations from a perfectly straight line and will buzz. I narrowed this down on my stroke as I was testing the beta Blue version this week, and that was what kept causing mine to buzz. YMMV:)

If that’s the case, it ought not be. Nate, can you confirm this, and fix it? :)
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To Tin Man:

Also try dropping your elbow to make the tip move in a straight line, as opposed to an arc if you have more of a pendulum stroke.

It picks up vertical deviations from a perfectly straight line and will buzz. I narrowed this down on my stroke as I was testing the beta Blue version this week, and that was what kept causing mine to buzz. YMMV:)

I don't want to ignite this thread into an elbow drop flame war :duck:, but this is exactly how I got 7/10 on level 3 while still getting a solid stroke on the cue ball (3 rail speed).

I experimented a little with no elbow drop, but found that the harder I hit the shot, the more deviation the DigiCue would pick up and I just wasn't getting the linear results that I do when dropping the elbow drop.

Could this be proof that elbow drop is the natural way to bring the cue through the ball on a perfect linear plane? The proof is in the results. :grin-devilish: take that pendulum folks! :D:D
 

nataddrho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If that’s the case, it ought not be. Nate, can you confirm this, and fix it? :)

The DigiCue does have thresholds set on vertical plane movement for standard beginner, intermediate, advanced modes respective to the setting, but only measures this a split second before impact. If you accelerate through the ball and freeze, without punching at the ball, the impact vector will actually be straight, even with a pendulum stroke. It is when you have a punchy stroke and a pendulum/elbow drop that you start causing the tip to move along the vertical plane. My stroke was extremely punchy and a complete mess... carom players actually ended up teaching me a lot about this. I now use a pendulum stroke and love it. Many pool players are punchy and don't know it, even ones who play very well.

However, if you have a pendulum stroke, the pendulum part swings through after impact, and the original DigiCue might detect this as "not freezing" if you have a long settling time in your pendulum-y follow through. The DigiCue might buzz for this. This does not mean your stroke is bad, it is just making you aware of a characteristic of your stroke. The original DigiCue forces you to use intrinsic learning in a feedback loop / pay attention / in order to condition lasting improvements (at least that was my idea).

With the DigiCue Blue, you can see what the fault is, and if you have a long follow through motion you can change the freeze settling time to a higher setting. Everyone's stroke is different so it should be tailored to you. The original DigiCue is a universal benchmark for everyone, and the DigiCue Blue allows full customization.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The DigiCue does have thresholds set on vertical plane movement for standard beginner, intermediate, advanced modes respective to the setting, but only measures this a split second before impact. If you accelerate through the ball and freeze, without punching at the ball, the impact vector will actually be straight, even with a pendulum stroke. It is when you have a punchy stroke and a pendulum/elbow drop that you start causing the tip to move along the vertical plane. My stroke was extremely punchy and a complete mess... carom players actually ended up teaching me a lot about this. I now use a pendulum stroke and love it. Many pool players are punchy and don't know it, even ones who play very well.

However, if you have a pendulum stroke, the pendulum part swings through after impact, and the original DigiCue might detect this as "not freezing" if you have a long settling time in your pendulum-y follow through. The DigiCue might buzz for this. This does not mean your stroke is bad, it is just making you aware of a characteristic of your stroke. The original DigiCue forces you to use intrinsic learning in a feedback loop / pay attention / in order to condition lasting improvements (at least that was my idea).

With the DigiCue Blue, you can see what the fault is, and if you have a long follow through motion you can change the freeze settling time to a higher setting. Everyone's stroke is different so it should be tailored to you. The original DigiCue is a universal benchmark for everyone, and the DigiCue Blue allows full customization.
Nice. Looking forward to trying it.
 

tableroll

Rolling Thunder
Silver Member
Jayson is still sponsored by and plays with Meucci Cues. His sponsorship with us is for the DigiCue brand.

I am very interested in the 2nd generation of digicue. I think it is called digital cue blue because it is blue tooth capable. Is the digicue blue the same as the digicue except that it has blue tooth technology? Or have other parameters been added like "steering, freeze, jump up" etc? If new parameters come with the 2nd generation digicue, what are they?
 

nataddrho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am very interested in the 2nd generation of digicue. I think it is called digital cue blue because it is blue tooth capable. Is the digicue blue the same as the digicue except that it has blue tooth technology? Or have other parameters been added like "steering, freeze, jump up" etc? If new parameters come with the 2nd generation digicue, what are they?

Yes, you are correct. The new DigiCue Blue is the same as the original DigiCue with the addition of Bluetooth low energy hardware/software and some improvements to the way it handles some shot faults. The DigiCue Blue exposes a break down of the following shot faults:

Backstroke Pause - length of pause before your forward stroke
Shot Interval - time between shots (useful in preventing players from rushing)
Jab - triggers if you pull back your cue quickly after impact
Freeze - length of time cue remains reasonably motionless after impact (staying down on the shot)
Straightness - measures the degree of perfect piston-like stroke, movement not tolerable in any radial direction
Steering - same as straightness except vertical plane contraints are relaxed (pendulum/shoulder-drop allowed)
Softness - the power, or speed, that you use to hit the ball. 1 = medium power hit, 10 = very soft hit)
Follow Through - smoothness of the follow through (not length of follow through). 1 = very punchy, 10 is excellent acceleration through the ball.

All of these settings are fully customizable (4 settings each) and can be turned on and off. The vibrations can also be turned on and off, allowing functionality as a completely silent and passive data logger. The DigiCue Blue app logs the history of your shots, and is available for iOS and Android.
 

Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I bought my DigiCue 2 weeks ago or so because of this thread. I don't think I got the Blue. Is the Blue out already? I didn't see it on the website. I would like the features you're talking about. Can I swap mine? Or did I get the Blue and I don't know how to work it?
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought my DigiCue 2 weeks ago or so because of this thread. I don't think I got the Blue. Is the Blue out already? I didn't see it on the website. I would like the features you're talking about. Can I swap mine? Or did I get the Blue and I don't know how to work it?

You bought the regular one. The "Blue" will be available for purchase Nov 1st I think. There are about 10 of us on AZ that are beta testing it. (I'm one of them). That is why we know about it.

Here is the thread where the beta testers are reviewing the Blue. (My review to follow shortly):

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?459583&p=5966008#post5966008
 
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