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10-10-2018, 07:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
The 2 ball is the most important ball for pattern racking so specifying where it goes removes (or requires) most of the pattern issues.
But you can put the 2 on the wing that goes and then use the 3 in its place.

You used-ta not learn that smarts for free.
  
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10-10-2018, 07:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Absolutely, 100% guaranteed that you do not make the corner ball and 1 ball on the break 65% of the time, and YES.. I will bet on it.

You'd probably be the best player in America if this were true.
It was overstatement. Dont hurt um, hammer.
  
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Bob Jewett
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10-10-2018, 07:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
But you can put the 2 on the wing that goes and then use the 3 in its place.

You used-ta not learn that smarts for free.
The 2-ball rule when it is used says that the 2 ball is directly behind the 1 and 9 on the back point of the rack. It cannot be wingman.


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10-11-2018, 03:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Using turtle template racks for our bigger monthly 9-ball tournaments, racking the 9-ball on the foot spot which means racking the 1-ball roughly 4 inches above the foot spot, breaker racks their own balls, I'm looking for one single requirement of where the 2-ball can or cannot be placed in the rack, to prevent the breaker (who is racking their own balls) from giving themselves an easier run-out, assuming a ball is made on the break?

I've heard some tours have required racking the 2-ball in the back, but that seems strange to me, as with a template rack doesn't the 2-ball usually ends up at the head end of the table, closer to where the 1-ball will end up if it is not pocketed?

When using a template rack with the breaker racking their own balls, to prevent easier run-outs, should the 2-ball be required to be racked in the very back spot, in either of the 2 spots in front of the 9-ball or in either of the 2 spots behind the 9-ball? Please, if possible, give some reasoning / explanation as to why you feel the 2-ball should or should not be racked in a certain location in the rack - Thanks
No contest, 2 in the back. Otherwise, any decent player will run out.

This is my experience:

2 directly behind either side of 1 ball = breaker can make 2 ball go cross side.

2 on wings = obviously bad idea.

2 ball behind 9 ball = 2 ends up around center table to side pocket on medium break.

2 ball in back= yes, most likely go up table but if kissed, lol ... nightmare for breaker.

If I play 9 ball ghost and put the 2 anywhere but in back ....lol... well, the ghost is toast. When 2 is in back with 9 on spot, ghost at least has chance.

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10-11-2018, 03:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Pushout View Post
Shannon Daulton's tour puts the 2 in the back but I've never understood the reasoning for this myself. Putting the 2 in the second row certainly keeps it from going, that's where we would always rack the 5 ball in ring games to keep it from being made on the break.
Keeping the 2 from going is not the issue, its controlling where it goes that is much more powerful.

Putting 5 behind 1 was mostly safe cause breaker had to run 4 balls to get to it. Again, with 2 there, well, it makes it much, much easier to get out if breaker is very skilled.


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10-11-2018, 03:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Absolutely, 100% guaranteed that you do not make the corner ball and 1 ball on the break 65% of the time, and YES.. I will bet on it.

You'd probably be the best player in America if this were true.
I agree. Not saying anyone is not truthful but I would love to see it.


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10-11-2018, 03:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
So to clarify, are you saying you like the idea of spotting the 9-ball (if it is pocketed illegally) on the new higher spot location, or on the original lower spot location?

To me, it is critical that a Master spot covers up the spot where the 1-ball is racked for breaking, to protect the cloth and keep from wearing a hole through the cloth. Fred, you have to remember that I'm always speaking from the viewpoint of a room owner, trying to do everything I possibly can to keep the table, the cloth, the balls, etc. in as mint condition as possible. Racking the 9-ball on the traditional Master spot location which puts the 1-ball directly on top of the cloth 4 inches above the spot with nothing it to protect it is not an option for doing in my pool room.

I can live with re-spotting the 9-ball in either of those two locations, but it just seems simpler to re-spot the 9-ball on the clearly visible Master spot as opposed to a marked spot 3-7/8" below the Master spot, and I'm certainly not going to put two Master spots on the tables - that would look hideous.
All valid points, Chris. No easy solution. Do what you Gotta do. Personally, I will always want balls spotted referencing the traditional spot NOT some other spot 3 7/8ths high. The traditional foot spot sits on two very understandable reference lines: center string and the second diamonds off the foot of the table (foot string I suppose).

Food for thought:

Nothing stops your players or any players across the country from playing privately on yours or any room owner's tables with 9-on-the-spot rules without the room owner’s knowledge. The one ball won’t be racked on any protectivd spot. It’s something for all room owners to consider, especially if 9-on-the-spot becomes the norm. Maybe other room owners have a solution. Maybe a new thread is in order.

Freddie <~~~ rethinking the rules


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Last edited by Cornerman; 10-11-2018 at 03:48 AM.
  
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10-11-2018, 03:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
I agree. 1b in front, 9b in the middle and scatter the rest. Wouldn't worry about this at all.
If you are playing rack your own you should designate a spot for the 2 ball. Either the back ball (this is done because it hits the back rail and has to travel back through the pack and has a good chance for a collision) or one of the 2 balls behind the back ball (again for collisions to keep it down table). It doesn't always work like that but those seem to be the most unpredictable spots in my opinion.

When I say rack your own, most of the time I ha e the other balls in random spots, but I prefer to have the 2 ball as the second ball on the opposite side from where I am breaking. If it doesn't go cross side on the break it usually comes up table pretty consistantly with the 1 ball.

This is where I usually break dry and my opponent has an easier run out thanks to my rack skills.

See my disclaimer. 1


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I'm really a sh!t pool player and you probably shouldn't listen to any advice I may give.
  
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10-11-2018, 04:43 AM

all the tournaments i play in in the uk require 2 ball at the back (they are all 9 on the spot and use templates)
  
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Cool 10-11-2018, 05:34 AM

Throw the other six balls into the rack in whatever order you like. I don't think pattern racking is a big deal when playing one pocket.....
  
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10-11-2018, 05:45 AM

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Originally Posted by SC02GTP View Post
I don't think pattern racking is a big deal when playing one pocket.....
Me neither.


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10-11-2018, 05:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Absolutely, 100% guaranteed that you do not make the corner ball and 1 ball on the break 65% of the time, and YES.. I will bet on it.

You'd probably be the best player in America if this were true.
I meant to say I make one OR the other. I am however attempting to make them both. It was still probably a overstatement. I don't keep stats. But it's fairly easy to do at the new place that opened here in town. Something about the new tables and clean shiny balls.

My only point to the discussion was really it doesn't matter where you put the balls. The 2 ball position doesn't really matter.


Hope.., is not a Tactic.
  
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10-11-2018, 07:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Cornerman View Post
All valid points, Chris. No easy solution. Do what you Gotta do. Personally, I will always want balls spotted referencing the traditional spot NOT some other spot 3 7/8ths high. The traditional foot spot sits on two very understandable reference lines: center string and the second diamonds off the foot of the table (foot string I suppose).

Food for thought:

Nothing stops your players or any players across the country from playing privately on yours or any room owner's tables with 9-on-the-spot rules without the room owner’s knowledge. The one ball won’t be racked on any protectivd spot. It’s something for all room owners to consider, especially if 9-on-the-spot becomes the norm. Maybe other room owners have a solution. Maybe a new thread is in order.

Freddie <~~~ rethinking the rules
Fred, a high spot is certainly needed for our bigger tournaments when using templates. As we have new balls and new templates, the balls rack perfectly tight every time. If they are racked in the traditional spot, an experienced player breaking from the side rail can make the wing ball nearly 100% of the time and make at least one additional ball (2 balls total) likely 60% of the time and 2 additional balls (3 balls total) at least 30% of the time. When I've experimented with the high rack, the wing ball can still be made, but it's certainly not automatic, and dry breaks are far more likely as well, which is far preferable for our tournaments.
  
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10-11-2018, 07:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Fred, a high spot is certainly needed for our bigger tournaments when using templates. As we have new balls and new templates, the balls rack perfectly tight every time. If they are racked in the traditional spot, an experienced player breaking from the side rail can make the wing ball nearly 100% of the time and make at least one additional ball (2 balls total) likely 60% of the time and 2 additional balls (3 balls total) at least 30% of the time. When I've experimented with the high rack, the wing ball can still be made, but it's certainly not automatic, and dry breaks are far more likely as well, which is far preferable for our tournaments.
Hey Chris, how far forward is new 1b spot from original? 9-on-spot is great idea. Should be everywhere imo.
  
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10-11-2018, 07:55 AM

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Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
Fred, a high spot is certainly needed for our bigger tournaments when using templates. As we have new balls and new templates, the balls rack perfectly tight every time. If they are racked in the traditional spot, an experienced player breaking from the side rail can make the wing ball nearly 100% of the time and make at least one additional ball (2 balls total) likely 60% of the time and 2 additional balls (3 balls total) at least 30% of the time. When I've experimented with the high rack, the wing ball can still be made, but it's certainly not automatic, and dry breaks are far more likely as well, which is far preferable for our tournaments.
I am not suggesting you get away from racking the 9-ball on the foot spot. Racking the 9-ball on the foot spot at this point is a pretty well-known option and all the reasons for doing it, as it is the norm in the Mosconi Cup (since 2007!).

What I am suggesting is that regardless of what you do with the Master Spot, a 9-ball illegally pocketed should be spotted on the foot spot (whether a physical spot is there or not).

I further am saying that when players not in any tournament setting decide to rack the 9-ball on the spot, they will be breaking without protection under the 9-ball if the Master Spot is on the traditional foot spot. It may come to be a real problem.

It seems like it's not clear to you what I'm saying, so I'll just quit.

Freddie <~~~ I think I'm clear


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