an open letter to apa haters

lorider · Oct 25, 2016

And in particular...certain bcapl members.

This post is gonna be kinda long so please bow out now if you hate long posts.

I dont expect what I am about to type to get you to change your opinion of apa. Truthfully....there is some merit to reasons given on here for peoples dislike of apa although in my experience it is not as disastrous or widespread is some people claim....in my opinion of course.

I do realize that sometimes I come across as an overzealous apa fan and its not because I think its the bed league out there or better than your league. I defend apa because it allows me to be who I am.... A 62 year old man who loves pool and realizes his best days are behind him and never could have been the next svb.

I have never jumped in a thread that was complaining about issues in bcapl....tap or whatever league stating what a joke it is and to join apa. Yet you have people on here that have had issues with apa or have never played apa saying what a joke it is and to join xxxx league. Truthfully I would probably not fit in with other leagues. You all seem dead serious and complain about everything .

I guess the best description of me would be a mixture of a person who goes to league wearing rise colored glasses that does not allow him to see all the negative crap every one else sees and an amateur Keith mccready...not his playing level...his gab . I shot the bull during a match with my team mates...the opposing team and even my opponent...not while he is shooting of course..i wait until his inn in is over to give him shit about a great shot or a slopped ball. I get the same back lol.

Now to the subject of my disagreements with certain bcapl players on here. Let me preface this with saying I like a lot of things about bcapl and have the utmost respect for mark griffin.

Several posters on here remind me of my 1st encounter with a bcapl captain. I was asked to join bcapl by a guy who I met playing in a bar. Upon him introducing me to his captain the captain made it plain he did not need a bar banger on his team. In other words he did not think I was good enough to join his team without ever seeing me play simply because I had never played league.

The person on his team who introduced us tried to explain I had beat him 5 in a row at the bar. I still was not good enough because I was a bar banger. This person then apologized to me and took me to nee the lo. The lo found me a 9 ball team. The 1st team was an 8 ball team. Within a few months I had progressed to the 3rd highest ranked player on that team. One day the lo approaches me and asks if I was interested I. Joining an 8 ball team ...hell yes !!

A couple weeks vo by and we play you know who's team. Being shorthanded I was selected to play twice. I won 9 of 10 matches ...beating the captain twice. Not bad for a bar banger that was not good enough for his team. Really did not care for 9 ball but took to 8 ball pretty good since it was call shot......bar bangers call everything. The one thing that got me was getting points for balls that fell that you did not pocket....the most ludicrous rule I have ever heard of.could say a lot more negative about my experience but will end on a positive note. One day when putting up my cues one of the higher level players came up to me and stated he was impressed with how quickly my level of play had progressed since I had joined the league. He as the o ly person besides my team mates to make me feel welcome.

I quit pool for a few years and then a girl I was dating asked me to join her team when she found out I had played pool. I was reluctant due to my last experience but agreed in order to make her happy. Imagine my surprise she I found out it was apa and welcomed with open arms in a more laid back atmosphere. Be for long I was asked by several captains to join their teams in other divisions. A sharp contrast from my experience in bcapl. Nothing wrong with bcapl but the attitude of the so called superior players.....the ones I met personally and some who post on here.

You guys wanna gripe about a lowly 2 slopping in a couple of balls...go ahead
You guys wanna gripe about losing to a 5 that had a good night and feel.better about your loss by calling him a sandbagger....go ahead
You guys wanna gripe about not being able to load up with higher players and beat the crap.out of a bunch of 3's and 4's ...go ahead.

If griping about everything makes you happy...go ahead

Me...i am going to walk in the with my rose colored glasses ...shoot the bull with my opponent and have fun playing the game I love....hence my team name...clownin around.

RiverCity · Oct 25, 2016

lorider said:
And in particular...certain bcapl members.

This post is gonna be kinda long so please bow out now if you hate long posts.

I dont expect what I am about to type to get you to change your opinion of apa. Truthfully....there is some merit to reasons given on here for peoples dislike of apa although in my experience it is not as disastrous or widespread is some people claim....in my opinion of course.

I do realize that sometimes I come across as an overzealous apa fan and its not because I think its the bed league out there or better than your league. I defend apa because it allows me to be who I am.... A 62 year old man who loves pool and realizes his best days are behind him and never could have been the next svb.

I have never jumped in a thread that was complaining about issues in bcapl....tap or whatever league stating what a joke it is and to join apa. Yet you have people on here that have had issues with apa or have never played apa saying what a joke it is and to join xxxx league. Truthfully I would probably not fit in with other leagues. You all seem dead serious and complain about everything .

I guess the best description of me would be a mixture of a person who goes to league wearing rise colored glasses that does not allow him to see all the negative crap every one else sees and an amateur Keith mccready...not his playing level...his gab . I shot the bull during a match with my team mates...the opposing team and even my opponent...not while he is shooting of course..i wait until his inn in is over to give him shit about a great shot or a slopped ball. I get the same back lol.

Now to the subject of my disagreements with certain bcapl players on here. Let me preface this with saying I like a lot of things about bcapl and have the utmost respect for mark griffin.

Several posters on here remind me of my 1st encounter with a bcapl captain. I was asked to join bcapl by a guy who I met playing in a bar. Upon him introducing me to his captain the captain made it plain he did not need a bar banger on his team. In other words he did not think I was good enough to join his team without ever seeing me play simply because I had never played league.

The person on his team who introduced us tried to explain I had beat him 5 in a row at the bar. I still was not good enough because I was a bar banger. This person then apologized to me and took me to nee the lo. The lo found me a 9 ball team. The 1st team was an 8 ball team. Within a few months I had progressed to the 3rd highest ranked player on that team. One day the lo approaches me and asks if I was interested I. Joining an 8 ball team ...hell yes !!

A couple weeks vo by and we play you know who's team. Being shorthanded I was selected to play twice. I won 9 of 10 matches ...beating the captain twice. Not bad for a bar banger that was not good enough for his team. Really did not care for 9 ball but took to 8 ball pretty good since it was call shot......bar bangers call everything. The one thing that got me was getting points for balls that fell that you did not pocket....the most ludicrous rule I have ever heard of.could say a lot more negative about my experience but will end on a positive note. One day when putting up my cues one of the higher level players came up to me and stated he was impressed with how quickly my level of play had progressed since I had joined the league. He as the o ly person besides my team mates to make me feel welcome.

I quit pool for a few years and then a girl I was dating asked me to join her team when she found out I had played pool. I was reluctant due to my last experience but agreed in order to make her happy. Imagine my surprise she I found out it was apa and welcomed with open arms in a more laid back atmosphere. Be for long I was asked by several captains to join their teams in other divisions. A sharp contrast from my experience in bcapl. Nothing wrong with bcapl but the attitude of the so called superior players.....the ones I met personally and some who post on here.

You guys wanna gripe about a lowly 2 slopping in a couple of balls...go ahead
You guys wanna gripe about losing to a 5 that had a good night and feel.better about your loss by calling him a sandbagger....go ahead
You guys wanna gripe about not being able to load up with higher players and beat the crap.out of a bunch of 3's and 4's ...go ahead.

If griping about everything makes you happy...go ahead

Me...i am going to walk in the with my rose colored glasses ...shoot the bull with my opponent and have fun playing the game I love....hence my team name...clownin around.

Celophanewrap · Oct 26, 2016

Nice :thumbup:........

Cracktherack · Oct 26, 2016

The best way to get a game in a strange poolroom is to have a couple APA patches on your jacket, put 3 fingered gloves on both hands and stand the chalk on the floor and spin your cue into it. Put it back on your magnetic belt clip when done. Between shots, rotate the cue in the air like an airplane propeller. Your accessories should include a bottle of baby powder and some sort of cue holding device that clips to a nearby table. If your tip gets worn down, the counter has some of those screw on tips for quick replacement.

Icon of Sin · Oct 26, 2016

Now for the other side of the coin...

Why I quit league.

Im only 37 and I quit league (APA) about 5 years ago after shooting in it for a decade. I am grateful to league for the cheap competition and a decent rating system when used properly and especially all the friends I have made along the way. I quit as a 7 in 8ball and a 9 in 9ball.

For me, there was only so much more I could get out of pool league. I was a new father at the time of me quitting, so I was getting there late every night. Which wasnt really a problem for my team. It was usually after the first match and most times, teams save the higher numbers until later anyway. My team was ok with this, but I really wasnt.

I started to hate team play and the league rules, which made it tougher on the high level players as they advanced. I'm not talking about handicap. I'm more talking about making the numbers for your team and the lack of "higher" shots such as a pushout or jump cues. Also at the time league was only played on barboxes, and the majority of the time, they were Valleys. Not exactly a true equalizer in a match, but yet another thing that handicaps the higher player because lower level players have a great chance of running out due to shots that go in that shouldnt.

Another thing I didnt like was the scheduling. I'm kinda meticulous when it comes to time management and how I like to spend said time. Having to be there for the team started to get a bit old, especially as a new Dad. I had things I needed to take care of at home. My new responsibilities sapped some energy from me that used to go towards other responsibilities and I didnt want to do those anymore (having to be there every week same day and close to the same time, the coaching just to have your player either ignore you or attempt what you said and completely screw it up. Managing the team, even though I wasnt the team captain, other high level players can agree with me that the captain is still going to come to you the majority of the time for advice. It was just shit that I didnt want to deal with anymore on what was supposed to be a night out away from responsibility.

So for those reasons, and multiple others (I actually made a pros and cons list of quitting league, where the pros outweighed the cons by a lot) I QUIT.

So no more pool league, now what. As a pool player and not just a league player I was a semi-regular at some poolhalls. That went from Semi to full regular. I was able to stay on 9 footers regularly now, and not just any 9 footers but some really tough GCs that have been shimmed up pretty tight. I was able to go to the poolhall (not bar) on my own/family's schedule. I didnt have to worry about being late, helping someone with an absurd kickshot after they snookered themselves (which is normally why you are called in a time out) , or having to stick around all night just sitting around (I like to drink but I'm not much of a massive drinker, couple beers for me) and playing 1 match for about 30-45mins. Most importantly it was now my choice if I didnt want to deal with assholes or not. Most teams in any given division were decent people but 1 or 2 of those teams were full of rule book thumping assholes that thought pool league was the end all, be all of pool in general.

My already decent game started to improve dramatically.

I was playing twice a week at the poolhall. Would hit the poolhall one night and practice or get in cheap action. Could stay there for 4 to 5 hours and actually play the entire time. As someone who loves practicing solo, this is a massive benefit. Little cheap sets here and there where pool was still costing me about the same amount as a full league night with bar tab or in some cases actually being a return. Not to mention that competition I was gambling with was considerably tougher on tougher equipment.

So I was usually 2 nights at the poolhall, one night was for practice and action, another night was for a weekly tournament or more practice/action. I enjoyed the game enough to where I still wanted to get out and play it without any other reason to keep me at it and I started to enjoy it waaaaay more now. I have a home table so my other nights of the week were spent there just trying to stay in stroke.

So that's where I am now. I can go on and on on the reasons that quitting benefited me as there are so many others that come to mind as I proofread this, but I will spare you. I can now run 2 balls in a row and I donate to the other regulars

lorider · Oct 26, 2016

Cracktherack said:
The best way to get a game in a strange poolroom is to have a couple APA patches on your jacket, put 3 fingered gloves on both hands and stand the chalk on the floor and spin your cue into it. Put it back on your magnetic belt clip when done. Between shots, rotate the cue in the air like an airplane propeller. Your accessories should include a bottle of baby powder and some sort of cue holding device that clips to a nearby table. If your tip gets worn down, the counter has some of those screw on tips for quick replacement.

Dont give hustlers any ideas....they try to act lil anybody except who they really are to cheat people out of money. I have never seen any one do all the stuff you describe ....either you have some weirdos in your neck of the woods or you trippin on that crack....crack the rack.

Wait a minute...tom cruise did the propeller move...saw a pro while back put one of those tip shapers on the floor and spin his cue in it. Saw an old man playing one pocket and had some baby powder.. Have seen some players with those cue holders that clip to tables.....good idea for places that dont have any place to lean your cue....guess we don't have any weirdos around here.

Would be kinda funny to see some one do all the above though. :grin-square:

justaplayer · Oct 26, 2016

Pool should not be a team sport....league concept to get more fish into the barrel.

Skippy27 · Oct 26, 2016

Lorider, please enable your spell checker.

The fact your post was so long is not all that bad. The fact that I had to decipher it like I was a code breaker was.

Type79 · Oct 26, 2016

APA Is Just Not For Everyone

justaplayer said:
Pool should not be a team sport....league concept to get more fish into the barrel.

I quit APA partially due to the team structure. In particular, the unsolicited interruptions of my play were distracting and negatively affected my results, and in general, I consider the long conferences in which some engage to be ineffective.

People will argue the point, but IMO the handicap system encourages manipulation. Those that choose to disagree know what I'm talking about.

Speaking geographically, the APA sanctioned hall in Connecticut had tables in poor, very poor condition. I was disappointed whenever we entered the finals because of where we were forced to play.

Specific to my team, there was a fixation on winning rather than having a good time. Half the team repeated "It's All About Going to Vegas" "It's All About Going to Vegas" like it was a broken record.

If you like APA, go for it, but for me there was nothing enjoyable about it.

Icon of Sin · Oct 26, 2016

Skippy27 said:
Lorider, please enable your spell checker.

The fact your post was so long is not all that bad. The fact that I had to decipher it like I was a code breaker was.

I didn't think it was hard to read at all...

lorider · Oct 26, 2016

Skippy27 said:
Lorider, please enable your spell checker.

The fact your post was so long is not all that bad. The fact that I had to decipher it like I was a code breaker was.

My apologies Skippy..truth is I am not that illiterate....its this dang phone with a small screen and a small keypad plus an auto correct that must go haywire sometimes.

Guess I should proofread before I hit submit

randyg · Oct 26, 2016

Great thread.

Let's hear more.

I like every League!

randyg

justaplayer · Oct 26, 2016

Type79 said:
I quit APA partially due to the team structure. In particular, the unsolicited interruptions of my play were distracting and negatively affected my results, and in general, I consider the long conferences in which some engage to be ineffective.

People will argue the point, but IMO the handicap system encourages manipulation. Those that choose to disagree know what I'm talking about.

Speaking geographically, the APA sanctioned hall in Connecticut had tables in poor, very poor condition. I was disappointed whenever we entered the finals because of where we were forced to play.

Specific to my team, there was a fixation on winning rather than having a good time. Half the team repeated "It's All About Going to Vegas" "It's All About Going to Vegas" like it was a broken record.

If you like APA, go for it, but for me there was nothing enjoyable about it.

Yep and when you get to Vegas you are playing for pennies on the dollar of the money collected. The casinos and league structure kickback deals because the league bring in the players to drop money on food, rooms and gambling.

They say they are 250,000 APA players, they must pay at least $200 into the corporation...50 million dollars. People wonder where the drain on pool is, look no further. Most players entering league never progress to be real players. They look at pool like I do miniature golf...just hitting balls around for kicks and hanging with family/friends.

Celophanewrap · Oct 26, 2016

justaplayer said:
Yep and when you get to Vegas you are playing for pennies on the dollar of the money collected. The casinos and league structure kickback deals because the league bring in the players to drop money on food, rooms and gambling.

They say they are 250,000 APA players, they must pay at least $200 into the corporation...50 million dollars. People wonder where the drain on pool is, look no further. Most players entering league never progress to be real players. They look at pool like I do miniature golf...just hitting balls around for kicks and hanging with family/friends.

It's not about the money for everybody, and The APA (or any league for that matter) isn't for everyone.
Personally, I go to Las Vegas every year because I like the environment of the Team Tournament.
It's a nice bonus if you come out ahead money-wise, but that's not why I go.I enjoy the people and
meeting the people, playing because I want to and not having to look for a fish.

I like to go, and to me there's still a great personal value in going because you earned your way there
and you represent you're region and if you win they call you champion.
For someone like me, if it was about the money I'd have quit long ago

nine_ball6970 · Oct 26, 2016

As pool players become better, they become more and more stuck up. They think they are too good to play in such and such league and look down on people who do. They don't realize that most people play pool for casual entertainment and to spend time out with friends while enjoying the game they love.

Who cares what league people play in if they are having fun. Almost all players in all leagues do not play at an A level. It is sad the APA gets such a bad reputation for as many players as it has in the league.

If you don't like the rules, then don't play. If you don't like being on a team, don't play. If the fees or anything else upsets you, then don't play. That gives you no right to criticize people who like all of those things. They are in the majority while you are in the minority.

Lonestar_jim · Oct 26, 2016

I like to joke around in both leagues. That's probably why we are getting trounced in BCAPL. 8-ball is a lot less joking around.

No difference IMO to get awarded points when your opponent makes your ball compared to not spotting up those balls in other leagues. Keeps the scoring simpler.

jasonlaus · Oct 26, 2016

lorider said:
Dont give hustlers any ideas....they try to act lil anybody except who they really are to cheat people out of money. I have never seen any one do all the stuff you describe ....either you have some weirdos in your neck of the woods or you trippin on that crack....crack the rack.

Wait a minute...tom cruise did the propeller move...saw a pro while back put one of those tip shapers on the floor and spin his cue in it. Saw an old man playing one pocket and had some baby powder.. Have seen some players with those cue holders that clip to tables.....good idea for places that dont have any place to lean your cue....guess we don't have any weirdos around here.

Would be kinda funny to see some one do all the above though. :grin-square:

You can't cheat an honest man:thumbup:

strmanglr scott · Oct 26, 2016

Never understood why people let others opinion detract from something they enjoy.

Play your league, if you enjoy it, who the f cares what others say.

KissedOut · Oct 26, 2016

Celophanewrap said:
It's not about the money for everybody, and The APA (or any league for that matter) isn't for everyone.
Personally, I go to Las Vegas every year because I like the environment of the Team Tournament.
It's a nice bonus if you come out ahead money-wise, but that's not why I go.I enjoy the people and
meeting the people, playing because I want to and not having to look for a fish.

I like to go, and to me there's still a great personal value in going because you earned your way there
and you represent you're region and if you win they call you champion.
For someone like me, if it was about the money I'd have quit long ago

I like hearing about folks who have the capacity to enjoy the game for the game's sake.

:thumbup:

Jeff Rosen · Oct 26, 2016

I'm a year older than you, 63.
To me there are pros and cons with the APA. I am currently in 4 leagues, an APA 9 Ball league, an NAPL 9 Ball individual league (Tony Robles), and 2 straight pool (14.1) leagues. I was also in Mega Bucks but quit. I also like tournaments in local pool rooms and try to enter most Predator tours. In APA I'm only a three, (I'm probably a 4 as I do a lot of safeties that the scores don't score) In NAPL I'm a D+ and in 14.1 I'm pretty much on the lower side in handicap.
I've been in APA both in bars with coin operated tables and in pool rooms with 9 footers. Presently I'm just in bars in APA. I find there's very little or no practice. In the pool rooms tables were available an hour before. The cons of APA: I don't care for team play. I hate being relied on and feel guilty that I let down the team if I lost. I don't like the fact that I play for a half hour but spend 3-4 hours watching. I get up for work at 5:00 so I hate staying till after midnight. In individual leagues you play your match and go home. Although I do like the 9 ball scoring format as it's sort of a rotation straight pool, I wish there was calling the nine and pushouts. Also Vegas means nothing to me. I probably wouldn't get the time off, I'm a letter carrier (retired NYPD cop) and the post office always denies days off. Besides, even though the APA pays for the trip I'd probably lose a fortune at blackjack, LOL. I'd much rather go to the expo in Pennsylvania than go to Vegas.
Now the pros: I've made some good friends including the league operator who is a real gentleman. I do enjoy the competition and the team comradery. I do like the fact they don't have "all ball fouls" as I'm a real klutz,LOL. I don't know how many times in Mega Bucks they got me on three fouls because I touched a ball. I don't know of any other league on that particular night so it's better than not playing. I definitely like the scoring in 9 Ball. I really hate the fact in regular 9 Ball you can run the 1 to the 8 then leaving the 9 as an easy hanger for your opponent thus losing the game.

an open letter to apa haters

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