Black Pool Players Matter

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Cliff vs Cisero

Not to knock Cliff, but Cisero put himself in pool's history books both for his feats and what he gave back to pool. He will be remembered for many more years yet, long after his death. Cliff, like the vast majority of us, will soon be forgotten.

Without getting into the usual old vs new player thing, in his time Cisero was in a class Cliff never quite reached. He was also there at the right time to be remembered. A shame we will never know about some other great black players that never got their chance. Were they simply great with no qualifier? Hard to be certain since the chance to show their stuff against the best of the best in elite competition was denied them.

Hu
 

gogg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can I add my voice to the pack howling for a picture of that Gina?
 

ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
I attended the One Pocket Hall of Fame banquet when Marvin Henderson was inducted posthumously. I spoke at some length with his brother, who attended.

As a side note of interest: Marvin played his entire time in California with a wrapless Ginacue ca1965 made of Brazilian rosewood. Ernie Gutierrez told me that particular piece of wood was the prettiest BR he had ever seen, and he couldn’t bring himself to cut the wood at the handle and put on a wrap, so he made it wrapless, with an ivory wedge and large, killer barbells.

It is the most striking wood I have ever seen in a cue (I’ve seen a lot). Ernie was asked by the family to sell the cue, so he called me and I purchased it immediately. Ernie refinished it and delivered it to me in Las Vegas . I still own the stunner and plan to keep “for the duration”.

Will Prout

Here are a couple of quick cell pictures. I will try to get some better ones soon.
If you expand the pictures you can see the forearm well enough to get an idea of the wood’s beauty. One long piece of stunning Brazilian Rosewood.
In your hand, the dark Brazilian burl with the white wedge and long barbells is truly a stunner.
Plays amazing, too. I have taken to Shooters Olathe during one of the large (180+) 9-ball tournaments, and 50+ guys
enjoyed playing with it. Marvin would’ve been pleased.

.....Not trying to derail this good thread, several posters asked for some quick pictures.

Will Prout
 

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Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here are a couple of quick cell pictures. I will try to get some better ones soon.
If you expand the pictures you can see the forearm well enough to get an idea of the wood’s beauty. One long piece of stunning Brazilian Rosewood.
In your hand, the dark Brazilian burl with the white wedge and long barbells is truly a stunner.
Plays amazing, too. I have taken to Shooters Olathe during one of the large (180+) 9-ball tournaments, and 50+ guys
enjoyed playing with it. Marvin would’ve been pleased.

.....Not trying to derail this good thread, several posters asked for some quick pictures.

Will Prout

It was a treat seeing that, thanks Will
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
thanks for sharing will
that cue is stunning !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Here are a couple of quick cell pictures. I will try to get some better ones soon.
If you expand the pictures you can see the forearm well enough to get an idea of the wood’s beauty. One long piece of stunning Brazilian Rosewood.
In your hand, the dark Brazilian burl with the white wedge and long barbells is truly a stunner.
Plays amazing, too. I have taken to Shooters Olathe during one of the large (180+) 9-ball tournaments, and 50+ guys
enjoyed playing with it. Marvin would’ve been pleased.

.....Not trying to derail this good thread, several posters asked for some quick pictures.

Will Prout

Thanx, Will
I like the wood
I like the wedge
I like the fact that you will let people hit balls with it

I like people who are generous with their stuff...otherwise, your possessions start to own you.
 

4scarecrow

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone know a guy from Omaha named Lee? I don't know what his last name is, he was from Omaha but played in Phoenix and Vegas quite a bit. Was a great player, not pro-level, but not too far behind. He was a master at 3-card monte, I've seen him take thousands playing that game.

Always wondered what happened to him.

I know Lee Norton from Omaha. I play cheap sets with him now and again. Great with the 3-card monte. Seen him rob a bunch of guys like that. He’s a very accomplished player and a good guy to know. A very entertaining guy to watch work.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know Lee Norton from Omaha. I play cheap sets with him now and again. Great with the 3-card monte. Seen him rob a bunch of guys like that. He’s a very accomplished player and a good guy to know. A very entertaining guy to watch work.

Tell him Andy (the guy that moved to Idaho) said hi and I hope he's doing well.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member

That's Youngblood Washington out of Chicago, not the Youngblood he's talking about, James "Youngblood" Brown from Texas. Both were great players, with Washington being a better all around player. I first met "Texas Blood" in 1968 in Los Angeles. Someone imported him to beat me playing Banks. I had a rep as a good Bank Pool player and that was the game where I might go off.

I vaguely knew who Blood was and refused to play him, until he offered me 5-4 playing short rack, which is a very good spot. We played 20 a game for the next few hours and he finally beat me out of three or four games. I had held my own against him until the very end. Blood turned out to be one of the top Bank Pool players in the country, right up there with Truman, Tony Fargo and Jimmy Fusco. Only Bugs, Cannonball (His mentor), Eddie Taylor and Donny Anderson may have been rated above him.

He is still alive last I heard, living in Oakland.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think there is more than one Youngblood. The guy I played in the late 60s was more in the hipster style of dress and had one of those sixties style tall floppy caps on and a beard. He had a couple other black guys with him. This was the Superfly era.

That's James "Youngblood" Brown, also a damn good player.
 

9andout

Gunnin' for a 3 pack!!
Silver Member
anyone notice at the end of the video the mural in Brooklyn had his name spelled with an S instead of a C ?
Check out the comments below the video.
A relative of his posted.
Seemed legit.
Said his first name was Cisero (with a C) and not James.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Once again I feel so fortunate to have known and been friends with almost all these guys being discussed on here. First of all I will add my list of the greatest black pool players of all time in no particular order, other than my own opinion.

1. It has to be James Evans, the man considered by his peers to have been the equal of Ralph Greenleaf.

2. Marvin Henderson, possessor of the most beautiful stance and stroke (along with Ed Kelly) that I ever saw on any pool player. Marvin was a thing of beauty to watch play. He was like the icing on the cake the way he smooth stroked those balls. He caressed them rather than hit them. And the balls loved him back for treating them so well. And he was my dear, dear friend! My eyes water up when I talk about him. He always had a big smile for me and an invitation to join him, whether it was having a beer, going out for dinner or just some bar hopping for fun. And yes, we did have a smoke or two or three together, getting high and laughing at the world. It broke my heart when I heard he died. I loved Marvin Henderson the man, not the pool player.

3. Cisero Murphy, only one of the absolute best players of his generation, right up there with Lassiter, Balsis, Crane and all the rest. Another fine man, who was soft spoken and let his cue do the talking. He remained humble his entire life and never let the obstacles he faced discourage him or his love for the game. Probably my second best friend after Marvin. I had mad respect for Cisero. He was a legitimate world champion and worthy addition to the BCA HOF.

4. James "Rags" Wood, an early mentor to me when I traversed the black poolrooms of L.A. He was the king of the L.A. ghetto and everyone respected him, gangsters and players alike. Rags was known coast to coast and all the top players knew who he was. He could play all games and he led a stable of great black players from L.A., all of whom he influenced in their games. Another warm and friendly man who looked out for the underdog and lived a life of honor, even among the outlaws who populated the poolrooms of his era. He and Marvin had several memorable encounters with no clear cut winner.

5. Cliff Joyner, one of the most talented men with a cue that I ever met. For many years, he was the second best One Pocket player in the country, with only Efren rated ahead of him. He had the most powerful and consistent stroke of just about anybody, able to overpower the balls and the table, and make them do his bidding. He also became my friend and partner and we made some pretty good money in our time together. Contrary to popular opinion Cliff could play all games on any table, even winning both divisions of the U.S. Bar Table one year.

6. Cecil "The Serpent" Tugwell, one of the most talented cueman I ever met, but his temper got in the way of his greatness. When he got mad his game diminished. When he kept it under control he was near unbeatable. I took him on the road a couple of times and all he did was win, win, win. After he broke his wrist I thought he was done and a year later he came back playing left handed almost as good as he played righty before, but not quite. By far the best player I ever saw to switch hands during the prime of his career.

7. Bugs Rucker belongs right up there among the greats but I didn't know him nearly as well. I do know that he played the best One Pocket players (Ronnie, Shorty and Taylor) dead even and not many could do that. He, along with Taylor, were considered the best Bank Pool players of their era and maybe of all time.

That's about it for now. Thanks for reading.
 
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ibuycues

I Love Box Cues
Silver Member
Once again I feel so fortunate to have known and been friends with almost all these guys being discussed on here. First of all I will add my list of the greatest black pool players of all time in no particular order, other than my own opinion.

1. It has to be James Evans, the man considered by his peers to have been the equal of Ralph Greenleaf.

2. Marvin Henderson, possessor of the most beautiful stance and stroke (along with Ed Kelly) that I ever saw on any pool player. Marvin was a thing of beauty to watch play. He was like the icing on the cake the way he smooth stroked those balls. He caressed them rather than hit them. And the balls loved him back for treating them so well. And he was my dear, dear friend! My eyes water up when I talk about him. He always had a big smile for me and an invitation to join him, whether it was having a beer, going out for dinner or just some bar hopping for fun. And yes, we did have a smoke or two or three together, getting high and laughing at the world. It broke my heart when I heard he died. I loved Marvin Henderson the man, not the pool player.

3. Cisero Murphy, only one of the absolute best players of his generation, right up there with Lassiter, Balsis, Crane and all the rest. Another fine man, who was soft spoken and let his cue do the talking. He remained humble his entire life and never let the obstacles he faced discourage him or his love for the game. Probably my second best friend after Marvin. I had mad respect for Cisero. He was a legitimate world champion and worthy addition to the BCA HOF.

4. James "Rags" Wood, an early mentor to me when I traversed the black poolrooms of L.A. He was the king of the L.A. ghetto and everyone respected him, gangsters and players alike. Rags was known coast to coast and all the top players knew who he was. He could play all games and he led a stable of great black players from L.A., all of whom he influenced in their games. Another warm and friendly man who looked out for the underdog and lived a life of honor, even among the outlaws who populated the poolrooms of his era. He and Marvin had several memorable encounters with no clear cut winner.

5. Cliff Joyner, one of the most talented men with a cue that I ever met. For many years, he was the second best One Pocket player in the country, with only Efren rated ahead of him. He had the most powerful and consistent stroke of just about anybody, able to overpower the balls and the table, and make them do his bidding. He also became my friend and partner and we made some pretty good money in our time together. Contrary to popular opinion Cliff could play all games on any table, even winning both divisions of the U.S. Bar Table one year.

6. Cecil "The Serpent" Tugwell, one of the most talented cueman I ever met, but his temper got in the way of his greatness. When he got mad his game diminished. When he kept it under control he was near unbeatable. I took him on the road a couple of times and all he did was win, win, win. After he broke his wrist I thought he was done and a year later he came back playing left handed almost as good as he played righty before, but not quite. By far the best player I ever saw to switch hands during the prime of his career.

7. Bugs Rucker belongs right up there among the greats but I didn't know him nearly as well. I do know that he played the best One Pocket players (Ronnie, Shorty and Taylor) dead even and not many could do that. He, along with Taylor, were considered the best Bank Pool players of their era and maybe of all time.

That's about it for now. Thanks for reading.


I gotta spread some around before I can give you a greenie.
This is a great post, maybe some others might take a moment to send some green to Jay, from me.
Well deserved, thanks. :thumbup::thumbup:

Will Prout
 

Buster8001

Did you say shrubberies?
Silver Member
Once again I feel so fortunate to have known and been friends with almost all these guys being discussed on here. First of all I will add my list of the greatest black pool players of all time in no particular order, other than my own opinion.

1. It has to be James Evans, the man considered by his peers to have been the equal of Ralph Greenleaf.

2. Marvin Henderson, possessor of the most beautiful stance and stroke (along with Ed Kelly) that I ever saw on any pool player. Marvin was a thing of beauty to watch play. He was like the icing on the cake the way he smooth stroked those balls. He caressed them rather than hit them. And the balls loved him back for treating them so well. And he was my dear, dear friend! My eyes water up when I talk about him. He always had a big smile for me and an invitation to join him, whether it was having a beer, going out for dinner or just some bar hopping for fun. And yes, we did have a smoke or two or three together, getting high and laughing at the world. It broke my heart when I heard he died. I loved Marvin Henderson the man, not the pool player.

3. Cisero Murphy, only one of the absolute best players of his generation, right up there with Lassiter, Balsis, Crane and all the rest. Another fine man, who was soft spoken and let his cue do the talking. He remained humble his entire life and never let the obstacles he faced discourage him or his love for the game. Probably my second best friend after Marvin. I had mad respect for Cisero. He was a legitimate world champion and worthy addition to the BCA HOF.

4. James "Rags" Wood, an early mentor to me when I traversed the black poolrooms of L.A. He was the king of the L.A. ghetto and everyone respected him, gangsters and players alike. Rags was known coast to coast and all the top players knew who he was. He could play all games and he led a stable of great black players from L.A., all of whom he influenced in their games. Another warm and friendly man who looked out for the underdog and lived a life of honor, even among the outlaws who populated the poolrooms of his era. He and Marvin had several memorable encounters with no clear cut winner.

5. Cliff Joyner, one of the most talented men with a cue that I ever met. For many years, he was the second best One Pocket player in the country, with only Efren rated ahead of him. He had the most powerful and consistent stroke of just about anybody, able to overpower the balls and the table, and make them do his bidding. He also became my friend and partner and we made some pretty good money in our time together. Contrary to popular opinion Cliff could play all games on any table, even winning both divisions of the U.S. Bar Table one year.

6. Cecil "The Serpent" Tugwell, one of the most talented cueman I ever met, but his temper got in the way of his greatness. When he got mad his game diminished. When he kept it under control he was near unbeatable. I took him on the road a couple of times and all he did was win, win, win. After he broke his wrist I thought he was done and a year later he came back playing left handed almost as good as he played righty before, but not quite. By far the best player I ever saw to switch hands during the prime of his career.

7. Bugs Rucker belongs right up there among the greats but I didn't know him nearly as well. I do know that he played the best One Pocket players (Ronnie, Shorty and Taylor) dead even and not many could do that. He, along with Taylor, were considered the best Bank Pool players of their era and maybe of all time.

That's about it for now. Thanks for reading.

Great post, Jay.

When you circle back, I'd love some commentary on Strawberry Brooks.
 
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