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07-30-2020, 04:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Deruki View Post
Wouldn't it be grand if it were only this simple?

Lower level players stay there for a variety of reasons. Not aiming straight is way down on the list. Particularly for 3s and 4s. They have no stance, they have no stroke, they have no pre shot routine, they have no plan. In short they have no solid fundamentals. And then they often have booze and dope to boot.

And they generally have no inclination to change any of that. The reason the people you help improve rapidly is partly because of what you show them about their eyes but mostly because they do have an inclination to get better which is why you met them to begin with.
Dude... spot on. Playing Apa and being a 7/9 I get that question often from middle level players that arenít getting better. I ask how much are you playing? They will say oh I play leagues 4 times a week. Noooo.. how much are you playing? Leagues wonít make you better. Competing is how you test if the work your putting in is making you better. Honing your fundamentals .. as you said. Shooting drills. Thats how you get better.
A good golfer doesnít good just going out and playing 18 holes . They spend time on the driving range. Hours hitting the same shots over and over again until they consistently hit them at will. Pool is no different. You have to put in the time if you want to play at the highest level your capable of.


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07-30-2020, 04:22 AM

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Originally Posted by trob View Post
I ask how much are you playing? They will say oh I play leagues 4 times a week. Noooo.. how much are you playing? Leagues wonít make you better. Competing is how you test if the work your putting in is making you better.
Keeping in mind the skill levels you are speaking of, APA 3/4, league actually is competitive play for them.

Everything is relative honestly... I go a step further, and say shooting drills are a waste of time. Good for warming up your arm, but doesn't teach you how to deal with actual game play. Better to splash the balls and try to get out.

I think we need to reset and realize that the eye dominance correction Gene teaches isn't the whole picture. However after spending a few minutes on it with him. I can fully understand how it could greatly hamper a new player's progress.


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07-30-2020, 05:46 AM

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Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
Keeping in mind the skill levels you are speaking of, APA 3/4, league actually is competitive play for them.

Everything is relative honestly... I go a step further, and say shooting drills are a waste of time. Good for warming up your arm, but doesn't teach you how to deal with actual game play. Better to splash the balls and try to get out.

I think we need to reset and realize that the eye dominance correction Gene teaches isn't the whole picture. However after spending a few minutes on it with him. I can fully understand how it could greatly hamper a new player's progress.
Iím talking about the 5 and 6ís and the best players in the world do drills. Lol tiger woods after a round will go back to the driver ranger when everyone is eating dinner and hit his irons or whatever he was struggling with for hours...but you know what do they know. Lol any instructor will tell you the worst thing you can do is splash the balls on the table and run them out. Unfocused practice is a waste of time.


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07-30-2020, 06:57 AM

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Originally Posted by trob View Post
I’m talking about the 5 and 6’s
My apologies... you clearly said "middle level". I had 3/4 in my mind from the post you quoted.

Quote:
.....and the best players in the world do drills. Lol tiger woods after a round will go back to the driver ranger when everyone is eating dinner and hit his irons or whatever he was struggling with for hours...but you know what do they know. Lol any instructor will tell you the worst thing you can do is splash the balls on the table and run them out. Unfocused practice is a waste of time.
I didn't imply the bolded above.... I just believe setting up the same shot time after time is a waste of time. The only difficulty in pool is the randomness of the game. I see more benefit in simulating the random nature of game play during practice. I can tell ya, I've apparently wasted decades of time with unfocused practice. It has served me well, and loaded my bag with an arsenal of options when I encounter difficult choices not covered by drills.

All that said, you now have me thinking I could have been the Tiger Woods of pool if I had ran into any pool instructor during my youth.


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07-30-2020, 09:21 AM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
I'm not sure I understand the "hands follow the eyes" thing.

I guess I'd like to hear a fuller explanation but with just the fortune cookie to go on I'd have to say it sounds kinda bogus.

Lou Figueroa
It becomes obvious if you substitute pistol shooting for pool. I don't think the gun analogy applies to pool though. A gun is manufactured to produce linear forces. A shooter trains to point it correctly. A pool player has to train to produce a linear force and further has to train to propel a sphere along the same line. As those iron willies seem to indicate, this is better done by setting the stick correctly in the first place.
  
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Rare and special lesson here for sure..
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Rare and special lesson here for sure.. - 07-30-2020, 12:16 PM

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Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
Thanks again Gene. It was a pleasure...

For all the active readers of this thread that like me doubt the value learning about / compensating for eye dominance, here is my honest and unsolicited review of my time spent with Gene this evening.

Please note, that I would be considered by most as an advanced amateur player, so the focus of the lesson centered mostly on identifying and gauging my eye dominance. Adjusting my fundamentals was not a consideration at any point. I also never doubted the phenomenon of eye dominance.

First off, it should be known that Gene is a pleasure to deal with, and very forth coming with his approach. There is no snake oil being offered for sale.

He has his own approach to determining which eye is dominant and by how much it is effecting your aim. Gene verified what I already believed to be my dominant eye, and the amount of time it took to prove how it was effecting my aim, was mere moments.

My stance on how players can naturally correct for ED (lol...I realize what else that could stand for) has not changed. IMO any player who is truly attempting to excel at pool can and should be adjusting how they hit the OB to pocket it correctly. However speaking as someone who was away for the game for nearly a decade. What Gene showed me has renewed my confidence at playing this game at a high(er) level.

What I discover in my short time with Gene, is that my ED was actually creating confidence issues at key moments. Brief story shorter..: Cutting the ball one way,, everything is natural. Cutting it the other, the aim feels off and I end up adjusting by feel to pot the ball. Now I do make that adjusted shot more often than not. However when I'm playing at less than my best, having to correct after my approach instills doubt. This does have the potential to leach into the rest of my game while the pressure increases throughout a match/tourney. I'm known as a grinder, and I always do my best to play through this potential self doubt. This perceived "grinding" is honestly me just trying push the doubt out of my mind while down on the ball. To be clear, this ED revelation and it's likelyhood in improving my game is conjecture on my part as I obviously haven't had the opportunity to test my theory in the heat of battle during the last few hours. That said, I can speak objectively about my own game and tendencies in key moments. ...so I think I can speculate with some certainty.

I have absolutely zero doubt that my time with Gene this evening will improve my game. Will I make more balls...?...no, not directly. I do now however understand why I feel the need to adjust aim while down on the ball. This will translate into reset and re-approach rather than "on the fly correction" which is the bane to consistency, and will prevent me from second guessing myself in tough situations.

I should also state that the "correction" does not impact my fundamentals and/or PSR.

Strong players..., this is worth your time.
Before we did this lesson I watched JV play on some videos. I watched for about 30 minutes and hardly ever seen him miss but I could see he would get up and down again sometimes on certain shots. He would still get there on most of them and still make the ball.

When he says at the end of the post: Strong players...., this is worth your time.....He is relating to strong players because he can play with the best of them. He can flat out play.

There are players hidden all over the place that could be playing professionally but they are doing the family thing, work thing and that is great. Jv is one of those guys.

I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he would be pleasantly surprised how much this would help to envision the shot as good as humanly possible. Something that just was kind of not there on certain shots cut to the left.

Because of the level of play JV is at, any little improvement is huge.

On the same token, the lower level player learning the same thing is huge also but in a different way. The lower level player can now make some kind of sense about what is going on when he shoots a shot otherwise the whole game is just a mess and seems like mission impossible. Once this is learned they can start to improve at an extremely fast pace. This is why many of the young guns I have worked with get to a higher level and seem to come out of nowhere.

Now , what higher level they get to depends on how hard they work because there is allot more to this game than seeing the shot correctly but if the sights on any gun are crooked the person shooting the gun would look very bad, not knowing what the problem was makes it even worse.

Just keep missing and missing and missing. Shape doesn't work, ball patterns aren't even a thought and the missed shot takes care of any ball patterns or shape you were planning on. Nothing works well.

JV is a prime example of a player that plays at a higher level and played flawless at certain times in his life. He shared this thought with me during the lesson. During the flawless time he was playing all the time. Gambling every day and just getting out from everywhere. This is what repetition will do and is how many of the pros stay on top of their game. Playing allot. They have learned during their life from other players and also from monkey see, monkey do.

But once this player can actually see how flawed our own natural eye dominance is and how to correct it there is no telling this player that this isn't the answer for everyone that wants to improve.

JV teaches pool. so he was kind of pleasantly surprised by what he saw. Something that would give him the confidence to feel good about every shot by knowing how to keep the eye dominance under control. Once this is done manually for awhile it kind of becomes natural. But at the same time we drift back, not getting there sometimes and need to dig in and work at it again.

Myself, I remind myself every time I come to shoot pool how i need this to be right or i will struggle sometimes until I do get it right. And JV will discover this also. Our eye dominance will betray us from time to time. I call it a tune up to get on the right track again. Knowing how to correct this manually is a must. If you don't know how to correct it manually there is no tune up.

Working with a player of JV's ability is very rewarding to me. I know that I am working with a player that had put his heart and soul into the game. Grinding out every shot and grinding out every dollar played for.

Being able to show and help someone with something that I know will just add to this whole story line is the best possible reward for me.

The best part of the whole thing is JV teaches some pool and he can share this with some of the young guns up there in Canada. He can build some young champions. This will just help them get there a little faster.

JV, I want to thank you for letting me share this with you. Good Luck my friend....
  
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07-30-2020, 01:07 PM

Well thanks Gene, you just killed any easy action I might ever hope for...lol.

I do appreciate all the kind words.

Truth be told, I'm not an formal instructor / teacher. More of a sage type road warrior that doesn't hesitate attempting to pass on what wisdom I've collected during the long fought battle.

I will be adding your insight into my bag of "tricks". I already have a few individuals in mind that will benefit as well.

All the best in your upcoming match.


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Soory about the killing part JV
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Soory about the killing part JV - 07-31-2020, 11:42 PM

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Originally Posted by The_JV View Post
Well thanks Gene, you just killed any easy action I might ever hope for...lol.

I do appreciate all the kind words.

Truth be told, I'm not an formal instructor / teacher. More of a sage type road warrior that doesn't hesitate attempting to pass on what wisdom I've collected during the long fought battle.

I will be adding your insight into my bag of "tricks". I already have a few individuals in mind that will benefit as well.

All the best in your upcoming match.
At least I didn't use your real name.
  
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Just worked with Mika tonight, you know who?
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Just worked with Mika tonight, you know who? - 07-31-2020, 11:56 PM

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Originally Posted by genomachino View Post
Same with a pool shot. If we are not looking exactly at what we are trying to do it doesn't get done either.

Just because a player is looking at the cue ball and object ball doesn't mean that he has it right. Once a player sees with their own eyes what is really really right they can make huge leaps and bounds in their game.

Once I get done showing players how to really look at the shot they will never see a pool shot the same for the rest of their life.

Unless they drift back to old habits.

Thanks again....
Played a couple of cheap sets with Mika tonight after I got done with some bigger sets at another pool hall earlier. I was pretty pooped but still hit some balls with him.

After we were done I talked to him about the dominant eye and he told me he was right eye dominant. I could see when he got down on the shot that he was favoring him left eye.

So once he was down on the shot I had him move his head back and forth. He could see how bad it looked when the right eye was in the dominant position and when he got the left eye there how good it looked. He was surprised for sure.

Then I showed him cutting balls to the left and the right. I helped him realize that when he cut to the left it felt like the left eye was doing everything and he said he felt like the left eye was shooting.

Then we lined up the right cut. In minutes with my help he could see that his left eye still felt like it was doing the work when he cut to the right, but, the with the left eye closed he could see that the right eye was actually aiming the shot. I didn't explain everything to him because we only had minutes before the Jimmy's closed but I showed him enough to help him see the shots better for himself and soon he will be able to teach this to some of the players that he helps.

This was so much fun. Way back in the 90's when he first came to the USA I played against him in a tournament. Pinkys in Vegas. He still remembered that. Pretty cool.

It was a really good night. I passed on a little info that I know will get spread around.

Nice guy too. One of the good guys in this pool world of ours.
  
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08-01-2020, 05:19 AM

Mika? Are your referring to Mika Immonen? Thats impressive!

Of course I had an instructor once tell me that he worked with/gave a lesson to Karen Corr. And I found out later all he did was help her get her instructor certification.

r/DCP


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08-01-2020, 12:07 PM

When world-class pro players seek out world-class instructors, it is more often than not having to do with something other than improving their play. In Karen's case it was teaching her how to teach effectively...which she learned, and was certified to teach.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCue'sProtege View Post
Mika? Are your referring to Mika Immonen? Thats impressive!

Of course I had an instructor once tell me that he worked with/gave a lesson to Karen Corr. And I found out later all he did was help her get her instructor certification.

r/DCP


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You can put that in the bank and collect interest...
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genomachino
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You can put that in the bank and collect interest... - 08-01-2020, 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCue'sProtege View Post
Mika? Are your referring to Mika Immonen? Thats impressive!

Of course I had an instructor once tell me that he worked with/gave a lesson to Karen Corr. And I found out later all he did was help her get her instructor certification.

r/DCP
If I say it is true you can put it in the bank and collect interest His girlfriend was with him and had a his name on the back of her shirt.

Mika teaches and he was pretty intrigued by this dominant eye business. And like I said he had no idea he was left eye dominant, in fact he thought he was right eye dominant. So it is pretty safe to say he didn't know much about how it works. In fact he thought he aimed with the cue in the middle. Had no clue, but he does now. I didn't show him this to do a lesson but shared it with him so down the line he can help other players with it. He definitely made sure he had my number before he left. It sure was fun to see him after all these years. I do understand what your talking about with certain instructors stretching the truth. Like I said, you can collect interest on my words my friend.
  
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08-02-2020, 08:14 AM

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Originally Posted by Scott Lee View Post
When world-class pro players seek out world-class instructors, it is more often than not having to do with something other than improving their play. In Karen's case it was teaching her how to teach effectively...which she learned, and was certified to teach.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Well, uhhhh, so......I know who the world-class player is here. Thats obviously Karen Corr.

But I guess I'm not sure who the world-class instructor is?????

r/DCP


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Break Cue: Schon butt/Chad Carter shaft
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08-02-2020, 08:25 AM

Since you're the one who brought it up, you should know who you're talking about. Obviously you don't!

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCue'sProtege View Post
Well, uhhhh, so......I know who the world-class player is here. Thats obviously Karen Corr.

But I guess I'm not sure who the world-class instructor is?????

r/DCP


PBIA Master Instructor
  
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08-02-2020, 08:56 AM

If someone doesn't think that Scott is world class in his specific field they haven't worked with many instructor's. Or perhaps can't follow the SPF path.

Kind of like asking a question here and rejecting all the answers.
  
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