New BCA Rules

rackmsuckr

Linda Carter - The QUEEN!
Silver Member
Two new rules don't really make sense to me.

1. Racking your own. I think this was to cut down the interminable rack checking by the breaker, but especially in 9 ball, there are ways to influence a 9 ball break. :rolleyes: I don't think the opponent is going to check EVERY rack every time. It also takes you out of the flow. You have to be extra diligent to make sure you mark your score.

2. Not arranging the balls in any special order. In 9 ball, you can 'fake' putting the balls in the rack. With 8 ball, it is tougher, not that there is much of an advantage in 8 ball. What I have a problem with is that traditionally, there have been a stripe and solid directly behind the 8 and then alternate solids and stripes, usually with a solid as the head ball.

Then they changed that to have one of each on the corners, so that people who break like me and make both corner balls. That made sense and was ok.

But now they have changed it so that the 8 goes in the middle and one of each goes in the corners and the rest goes in whichever way. I always try to shove a light-colored ball on top for visibility, but I am just itching to rearrange the rack. Seems like there is a greater chance of clumpage of either the stripes or solids if you clump them in the rack all on one side.

Any thoughts on these new rules?
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rackmsuckr said:
Two new rules don't really make sense to me.

1. Racking your own. I think this was to cut down the interminable rack checking by the breaker, but especially in 9 ball, there are ways to influence a 9 ball break. :rolleyes: I don't think the opponent is going to check EVERY rack every time. It also takes you out of the flow. You have to be extra diligent to make sure you mark your score.

I think this is one of the greatest rule changes in recent history. It's used at the BCA event in Las Vegas and was quite helpful.

rackmsuckr said:
2. Not arranging the balls in any special order. In 9 ball, you can 'fake' putting the balls in the rack. With 8 ball, it is tougher, not that there is much of an advantage in 8 ball. What I have a problem with is that traditionally, there have been a stripe and solid directly behind the 8 and then alternate solids and stripes, usually with a solid as the head ball.

This is to prevent pattern racking in 9-ball. 8-ball is far less an issue. Usually people will pattern rack in 8-ball simply with the intention of getting an even spread, not necessarily with the intention of preventing a run-out which is the objective of a pattern-racker in 9-ball.

rackmsuckr said:
Then they changed that to have one of each on the corners, so that people who break like me and make both corner balls. That made sense and was ok.

This actually isn't a new rule and since there's choice after the break, it's not a huge issue.

rackmsuckr said:
But now they have changed it so that the 8 goes in the middle and one of each goes in the corners and the rest goes in whichever way. I always try to shove a light-colored ball on top for visibility, but I am just itching to rearrange the rack. Seems like there is a greater chance of clumpage of either the stripes or solids if you clump them in the rack all on one side.

Any thoughts on these new rules?


The bottom line, IMO, the racker is doing a service for the breaker. Racking should be a neutral act, not sabotaged to prevent the breaker from performing his/her duties (making a ball and running out). Any rule that encourages neutral racks is good for the game, IMO.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
They lost me when they said that the eight on the break was no longer a winner. It's only about the hardest thing to do in pool, and might happen once a day in a big tournament. A player should be rewarded for making the eight on the break, not penalized.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
They lost me when they said that the eight on the break was no longer a winner. It's only about the hardest thing to do in pool, and might happen once a day in a big tournament. A player should be rewarded for making the eight on the break, not penalized.


You should try breaking from the siderail and hitting the second ball, then. I wanna say it goes 10% of the time but it's probably higher than that.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
You should try breaking from the siderail and hitting the second ball, then. I wanna say it goes 10% of the time but it's probably higher than that.


You have a bet sir! Name your price! We can bet $100 a pop. Every time it doesn't go you pay me $100. Every time you make it I pay you $1,000. If you scratch you lose. This bet is for Jude only!
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
That I can make an 8 on the break within 10 tries? Jay, how often do you play barbox 8-ball with this rule?

I've played a few times :). This was the only way we played Eight Ball worldwide, until the BCA came along and changed the rule several years ago.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
I've played a few times :). This was the only way we played Eight Ball worldwide, until the BCA came along and changed the rule several years ago.


Well, what are you suggesting the odds are? You say it's the only the hardest shot in pool. If you like the bet so much, why not give me 30 to 1?
 

FAST_N_LOOSE

<--THE AMAZING JESSE JANE
Silver Member
I Like The Fact That The 8 On The Snap Isn't A Win...... I Have 5 Or 6 Local Guys That Do It On A Very Regular Basis. 2 Of Them Aren't Even Mediocre Players, But Still Have A Decent Win % In Our Bar League Because Of Their 8's On The Break.

I Thought The 8 On The Snap Was Tough As Well, Until I Started In This New League And Saw How Often They Make It.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
Well, what are you suggesting the odds are? You say it's the only the hardest shot in pool. If you like the bet so much, why not give me 30 to 1?

Didn't you just say that you thought the eight would go 10% of the time, or more! Do you want to change your previous statement now? I'm offering you 10-1 based on YOUR statement. And I don't care what the previous poster said about his bar league teammates. In fact, I'll offer the same bet to them.
 
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Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Didn't you just say that you could make it 10% of the time, or more! Do you want to change your previous statement now?


No, I want to make some money. If I'm right, I'd break even. Perhaps you want to change your original statement. What are the odds on the hardest shot in pool?
 

shinigami

Consistently Inconsistent
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
No, I want to make some money. If I'm right, I'd break even. Perhaps you want to change your original statement. What are the odds on the hardest shot in pool?


Is it easier to make the 8 in a barbox? I've tried to hit the second ball during breaks and I haven't had that much success...way less than 10% maybe around 3 or 4% (9 footer).

Or maybe I'm not hitting the second ball correctly?
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
No, I want to make some money. If I'm right, I'd break even. Perhaps you want to change your original statement. What are the odds on the hardest shot in pool?

Our conversation is over Jude. It was nice talking to you. I think I made my point about how difficult it is to make the eight ball on the break. And you helped me prove it.
 

FAST_N_LOOSE

<--THE AMAZING JESSE JANE
Silver Member
shinigami said:
Is it easier to make the 8 in a barbox? I've tried to hit the second ball during breaks and I haven't had that much success...way less than 10% maybe around 3 or 4% (9 footer).

Or maybe I'm not hitting the second ball correctly?

MUCH DIFFERENT ON A BAR BOX.
 

FAST_N_LOOSE

<--THE AMAZING JESSE JANE
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Didn't you just say that you thought the eight would go 10% of the time, or more! Do you want to change your previous statement now? I'm offering you 10-1 based on YOUR statement. And I don't care what the previous poster said about his bar league teammates. In fact, I'll offer the same bet to them.

I DON'T THINK IT GOES 10% OF THE TIME. FOR SOME GUYS, ON A STREAK IT MAY, BUT NOT NORMALLY.

P.S. MY NAME IS MARCUS, NOT "PREVIOUS POSTER"
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Our conversation is over Jude. It was nice talking to you. I think I made my point about how difficult it is to make the eight ball on the break. And you helped me prove it.


Jay, I've offered my opinion on the matter. You're the one who has turned it into some sort of betting proposition. You said it was the hardest shot in pool. I said it was 10%. Obviously, if we were to gamble on such a matter, we'd bet on something in the middle, correct?
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I DON'T THINK IT GOES 10% OF THE TIME. FOR SOME GUYS, ON A STREAK IT MAY, BUT NOT NORMALLY.

P.S. MY NAME IS MARCUS, NOT "PREVIOUS POSTER"

Sorry about that MARCUS! You're "Fast N Loose" and I'm "Slow N Tight"!
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
Jay, I've offered my opinion on the matter. You're the one who has turned it into some sort of betting proposition. You said it was the hardest shot in pool. I said it was 10%. Obviously, if we were to gamble on such a matter, we'd bet on something in the middle, correct?

Jude, you came up with a number, not me. I was willing to bet that you're wrong, that's all. For all I know, you're right and I'm wrong. In that case I would have to pay you off.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Jude, you came up with a number, not me. I was willing to bet that you're wrong, that's all. For all I know, you're right and I'm wrong. In that case I would have to pay you off.


Well, no. See, if I'm right, we'd break even. If I'm wrong, I'd lose money.

If you want to prove me wrong, we wouldn't be betting. We'd conduct a test over x number of breaks to see what the outcome was and that's fine with me. I'd be happy to see what I can do.

However, you're the one who brought up gambling as a solution which isn't proving who's right. It's about money. Well, if it's about money, I'm not flipping coins for 1k.
 
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