The Physics of Pool

Shuddy said:

I think the problem with this is that most aiming systems are so convoluted (because there isn’t really a simple answer to finding the exact contact point other than ghost ball) that they distract from learning and enjoying the basics of the game.

I played snooker for about 20 years before playing pool, and I had never really heard serious discussion of aiming systems until I started playing pool. I recently, just for interest, tried using CTE, and seriously, it did my head in. I can’t imagine explaining it to a beginner and expecting them to get anything productive out of it while trying learn and enjoy pool.

The ghost ball is a solid concept to explain aiming, and I think beyond that, I agree with the OP; it’s repetition. And I don’t think learning approximate potting angles takes all that long, at least to the point where your brain understands whats going on. I think playing 20 full ball, quarter ball, half ball, and three quarter ball shots with a ghost ball would be enough to get most people in line with how aiming relates to the movement of the object ball.

In my opinion, cuesports are difficult enough, offering enough to think about, without introducing aiming systems that have as many exceptions and qualifications as English grammar (a system which some people fail to implement correctly even after 60 years of using it everyday). I think they are also an entry point to the rabbit hole of cuesports insanity, that place that sucks in those too willing to obsess over the search for a magic bullet that will solve all their pool playing woes.

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lfigueroa said:

The equations are interesting. To some they are fun and I believe there is no such thing as "too much knowledge." Certainly there can be no harm in learning and understanding them. But a great pool player they do not make. But I think we sometimes make the mistake in this group of placing way too much emphasis on the x and y of it, instead of practical ways to learn the physical act of shooting pool balls. Stance, head position, bridge, grip, levelness of cue, and delivery are what it's about. Now before the science guys (and wannabe science guys) go ballistic, I want to say that I like the diversity of the group and the fact that you can go from the discussions about gyroscopes to the first person accounts of road trips taken.

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BC21 said:

Excellent points. I agree that using ghostball, along with a solid fractional reference, would be a great way of developing aiming skills and learning cb-ob relationships/interactions, much more effective than using ghostball alone without referencing any solid point of aim directly on or just outside the edge of the ob.

It may not be the way most of us learned the game, but in my opinion aiming for something you can actually see is better than aiming for an estimated imaginary ghostball location.

Sorry, Lou, I know the thread wasn't meant to drift into an aiming discussion. Your point was geared more toward required table time, putting in the many hours needed to program your brain through shot repetition, trial and error. Unfortunately this programming process typically involves a ton of failed shots before pocketing balls becomes consistent enough to benefit from the process of shot repetition. We learn good and bad the same way -- by repeating the same good or bad over and over. So if we can reduce or eliminate the bad, we find ourselves repeating more good than bad, streamlining the learning process so that it doesn't require as much time.

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Valiant Thor said:

Just line up center to edge and edge to A,B,C PIVOT TO CENTER CUE BALL. EASIEST WAY TO MAKE A BALL.

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duckie said:

Your funny........show me one picture of a pool shot that has something to aim at. Put a little arrow in the picture that points at what can be seen by anyone to use for aiming. Ghostball is no different than any other method because they all require a player to use their imgination in visualizing what is needed for a shot. There ain’t nothing on the table nor ball that can be used.

You learn more from your failures than successes. And yes, in the beginning to learn to play pool, there will be a lot of failures, there is nothing to prevent this. The amount of failures is not the same for all. Some people learn quicker than others regardless of sighting method.

Cause and effect is what will teaches a player. Trail and error. Thing is, the more you do something and do it well, the less trail and error there is, as time goes on, because of past successful and failed shots.

The biggest weakness I see in inexperienced players is speed control. I seldom see a player practicing any form of ball speed control. In their play, the lack of speed control shows in their position play.

For precise speed control, it takes table time and lots of it. HAMB is vital in learning this. You put this much stroke on the CB and then watch the results.......cause and effect. You file those results for later reference.

And repeat in order to build up the biggest database you can about shot making.

To downplay the importance of hitting a lot of balls, HAMB, is really doing a disservice to new players. The more table time, the more quality table time a player puts in, the more they get back.

Handicapping systems are partly the blamed for the deline of HAMB. Why practice a lot when a handicapp gives ya chance to win. It’s this reason I do not play in handicapp tourneys.

You can not know the effects of the different types of spin that can be put on a CB without table time and again, the more time, the better a player will understand those effects.

Table time is critical in building muscle memory which your stroke is greatly dependent on. The more you do it, the more muscle memory is built......and table time is required.

Mastering pool goes way beyond sighting methods which some seem to believe is the holy grail to mastering pool. Mastering pool requires precise shot execution, over and over and massive amounts of table is the only way to achieve this and maintain that level.

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lfigueroa said:

The equations don't mean squat.

When you are leaning over that critical shot, it is all about those hours you've spent hitting countless balls into the pockets, how much attention you've paid during that time, and what you have taught yourself during those hours.

Don't get me wrong.

The equations are interesting. To some they are fun and I believe there is no such thing as "too much knowledge." Certainly there can be no harm in learning and understanding them. But a great pool player they do not make. But I think we sometimes make the mistake in this group of placing way too much emphasis on the x and y of it, instead of practical ways to learn the physical act of shooting pool balls. Stance, head position, bridge, grip, levelness of cue, and delivery are what it's about. Now before the science guys (and wannabe science guys) go ballistic, I want to say that I like the diversity of the group and the fact that you can go from the discussions about gyroscopes to the first person accounts of road trips taken.

But my point is that it's become impossible not to notice the almost elitist disdain meted out by those wielding slide rules against those that advocate "just hit the damn ball." Whether the science guys like it or not, these folks are closer to the truth and pass the test of Occam's Razor better than any equation. What makes a great, or at least a better pool player, is hours on the table, not hours on the calculator.

Though I have been called "a natural" when it comes to pool, nothing could be further from the truth. I work hard to achieve the modest success I occasionally enjoy. I do believe that as in other walks of life there are some people who are complete and total naturals when it comes to a particular skill. It is, in many respects, like setting out on an attempt to conquer Everest. Some people stumble upon the mountain pass shortcuts that lead them, almost effortlessly, to the top, clear weather all the way. They pick up a pool cue and their physique, natural setup, and God given hand-eye coordination, makes them play extraordinarily with virtually little cognitive effort. Others have Sherpas that guide them through via the shortest passes to the summit. But the majority of us read the maps and books and struggle up the mountain, sometimes weathering blizzard conditions that necessitate camping out on the whatever outcrop we can find. Despite all our study, work, and preparation, the journey is sometimes hardest and longest for those of us in this camp.

So to wrap this up, I'll just say that IMO the simple, ultimate secret about pool can be found on page 46 of Capelle's "A Mind for Pool." It sits there waiting in black and white for anyone who stumbles upon it:

"The big secret is that there is no single big secret."

No aiming system, no aim and pivot, no backhand english, no equations.

Just hit the damn ball.... over, and over, and over again.
#####

My only addendum to what I wrote (oh so long along) is: if the myth makes you run more balls and makes the cue ball go where you want, go with the myth and forget the science.

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Patrick Johnson said:

By happy coincidence, Dr. Dave just posted about his new Top 10 Myths video. Any of those myths in particular that you like better than the "science"?

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duckie said:

Your funny........show me one picture of a pool shot that has something to aim at. Put a little arrow in the picture that points at what can be seen by anyone to use for aiming. Ghostball is no different than any other method because they all require a player to use their imgination in visualizing what is needed for a shot. There ain’t nothing on the table nor ball that can be used.

You learn more from your failures than successes. And yes, in the beginning to learn to play pool, there will be a lot of failures, there is nothing to prevent this. The amount of failures is not the same for all. Some people learn quicker than others regardless of sighting method.

Cause and effect is what will teaches a player. Trail and error. Thing is, the more you do something and do it well, the less trail and error there is, as time goes on, because of past successful and failed shots.

The biggest weakness I see in inexperienced players is speed control. I seldom see a player practicing any form of ball speed control. In their play, the lack of speed control shows in their position play.

For precise speed control, it takes table time and lots of it. HAMB is vital in learning this. You put this much stroke on the CB and then watch the results.......cause and effect. You file those results for later reference.

And repeat in order to build up the biggest database you can about shot making.

To downplay the importance of hitting a lot of balls, HAMB, is really doing a disservice to new players. The more table time, the more quality table time a player puts in, the more they get back.

Handicapping systems are partly the blamed for the deline of HAMB. Why practice a lot when a handicapp gives ya chance to win. It’s this reason I do not play in handicapp tourneys.

You can not know the effects of the different types of spin that can be put on a CB without table time and again, the more time, the better a player will understand those effects.

Table time is critical in building muscle memory which your stroke is greatly dependent on. The more you do it, the more muscle memory is built......and table time is required.

Mastering pool goes way beyond sighting methods which some seem to believe is the holy grail to mastering pool. Mastering pool requires precise shot execution, over and over and massive amounts of table is the only way to achieve this and maintain that level.

Click to expand...