The APA may view it this away. And if they do that's fine, but they really need to re-write the rules to reflect that IMO.
APA rules question
- Thread starter UGC
- Start date
The APA may view it this away. And if they do that's fine, but they really need to re-write the rules to reflect that IMO.
That is really debatable, if I use my car to bring trash to the dump it does not make my car a dump truck, nor is using my work laptop to play a game on make it a "gaming computer".
There should be specific requirements for a playing cue for weight, length and other specs. If the playing cue falls withing those specs it makes it a playing cue. A "jump cue" from everything you will find about it is a short light cue with a hard tip. It's not just a cue you use to jump with. If a player uses a playing cue that falls withing specs of the playing cue and jumps with it, that is not a jump cue.
Now the fact that they only swap to jump with that cue could be an issue, if I was a ref I would tell them it would not be allowed due to the fact that it is not their playing cue since they have not used in in other shots in the match. Is someone pressed me to clarify I would go with "if you use the cue for half the shots during the match, it's your playing cue". So if you play with one cue for a rack, then the other cue for a rack, and want to pick one of them to jump with, go to it. If you take 40 shots with one cue then grab another one to jump, that would raise some flags. That is just using reason and logic not any official rules passed down from whoever sets APA rules, which may or may not follow reason and logic LOL.
The way to make the rule is simple. You can only jump with your playing cue, the one that you make the majority of the shots in a match or game in. The playing cue can be a minimum of 16 oz and 56" in length and has to have a leather tip on it. End of rule. If it was up to me, I would also set a max length on the cues since I feel that using a bridge should be a skill that should be used in games vs just using a longer cue to reach shots. I would set rules to 61" for max cue length.
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Aw hell, I'm selling all my chit except for 1 cue, 2 identical shafts with Triangle tips, a 1x2 cue case and the dime Willards and Brad scuffer on my key ring.
I agree that the rulebook is, in general, horribly written and does a very poor job of tightly defining the rules.
That said... The first authority with whom you should check is your local LO. Their interpretation will supercede the national body until you get to HLT events.
This has come up in my area before, and the interpretation is that the cue you shoot your normal shots with is the cue you shoot every shot with (exception being the break), and the only reason you can actually change shafts or cues for normal shots is if you have an equipment malfunction (damaged/lost tip, etc), in which case you shoot with another cue as your playing cue until the end of the match.
Now, if I wanted to use a traditional 'break' cue as my shooter the entirety of the match, for all played shots, yes, I could use it for jumps (fully assembled) because it is the cue with which I'm playing all of my other shots. If you have a good stroke, it's actually quite manageable if your tip has some grip (synthetics not so much, for the most part) - but simply not worth it imo.
APA might opt to agree with your interpretation, but I would be surprised. In any event, if you apply the passion you're demonstrating in pursuit of getting approval from them for it towards practicing your full cue jumps with your player, you will likely find very few situations where it will make a dramatic difference.
What kind of tip were you using on your break cue?
It's been alluded to in other posts, but this ends up falling in the realm of what the APA rulebook calls Sportsmanship violations.
If you're just starting out in APA, you're going to deal with a whole lot more than having an opponent switch cues for a shot to get an edge. Wait until you start dealing with timeouts that run quadruple the "suggested" one minute. Or having the other team have people signaling their 2 about what shot to take without wanting to call the timeout to do it. Then there's the ridiculous sharking stuff some people do during a match. Most of that isn't worth the aggravation, so you just let it go. It's like calling a push shot in a match where two raw beginners are playing, sometimes you just got to let them play and work it out themselves.
You'll quickly learn who the people in the league are that constantly cause problems, and are not reputable. Sometimes they're damn good shooters too, but ability and integrity are different measures.
If you are truly concerned about this happening, then you're following a good path by asking first, even if you don't like the answers people are giving. Good for you for staying in front of it.
If, on the other hand, you are trying to get answers for what people might say if/when you swap cues for a jump or a masse, then you'll be "that guy". For me, I play by my standards, and try not to let other people's antics get under my skin.
I've been a part of some lively discussions on league night about rules, and I have to say that even when we didn't find common ground, I wouldn't even take the first step into those discussions unless the other person had integrity. You'll find those are the people that agree to disagree and move past it. It's the lowlifes that never let it go. Kind of a King Solomon type of thing.
If you're just starting out in APA, you're going to deal with a whole lot more than having an opponent switch cues for a shot to get an edge. Wait until you start dealing with timeouts that run quadruple the "suggested" one minute. Or having the other team have people signaling their 2 about what shot to take without wanting to call the timeout to do it. Then there's the ridiculous sharking stuff some people do during a match. Most of that isn't worth the aggravation, so you just let it go. It's like calling a push shot in a match where two raw beginners are playing, sometimes you just got to let them play and work it out themselves.
You'll quickly learn who the people in the league are that constantly cause problems, and are not reputable. Sometimes they're damn good shooters too, but ability and integrity are different measures.
If you are truly concerned about this happening, then you're following a good path by asking first, even if you don't like the answers people are giving. Good for you for staying in front of it.
If, on the other hand, you are trying to get answers for what people might say if/when you swap cues for a jump or a masse, then you'll be "that guy". For me, I play by my standards, and try not to let other people's antics get under my skin.
I've been a part of some lively discussions on league night about rules, and I have to say that even when we didn't find common ground, I wouldn't even take the first step into those discussions unless the other person had integrity. You'll find those are the people that agree to disagree and move past it. It's the lowlifes that never let it go. Kind of a King Solomon type of thing.
Another big problem is that all the LO's aren't on the same page. I'm in SD and most of the decent players around here can jump and I was told as long as it's a full cue it's legal. I never had anyone question it until I got to Vegas and after the refs and others discussed it was determined I would be allowed to do it. I'm the least likely person to ever try to cause a problem and I said right away I would just kick at it, but my captain was adamant about getting the rule clarified.
Wow. You're bringing back memories i thought i'd fully buried. I might have a league ruling induced nightmare. SO glad i quit when i did. What i REALLY miss is playing someone that wouldn't bet water is wet but would want to go outside over a game of league 8ball. Mmmmmm, good times.
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Awesome reply. Yes, I'm trying to get ahead of the curve. I've asked my Local League Operator first. I was told to contact the APA directly to get an official answer from them. And that is what I'm waiting on now. But, I know a lot of people play in the APA so I wanted to get the opinion of others here. This hasn't come up in a game yet, but I'm sure it will at some point. And too, if it is allowed and I just don't know about it, I'm getting another cue set up to help with jumps. - But no matter the answer - I'm going to abide by their ruling.
Thank you for the thought out response.
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LMAO, it hasn't changed one bit. I won't claim to be a big gambler and never bet high, but I'm a consistent rail bird and love the game. I've seen more fights in league (and had a cue ball thrown at me) then one could imagine. Betting on the side and cheap sets I've never had a single issue.
I fail to understand why so many take league so seriously, I do it to qualify for tournaments and that's it.
I’ve done APA. I’d say you’re overthinking it. You don’t need to change any shafts or anything. All you need is one break cue to break and one playing cue to run out.
True. But I want to keep my opponents honest too. lol :wink:
That is the job of whoever is running the league not the players. If you think there is an issue, go to the LO. If you think they made the wrong call, go up another level.
You don't run around pulling over speeders do you? As a player you should be aware of the rules, to make the call if they are breaking them goes to whoever is in charge of doing that, which would be the person that runs the league and the league home office people. That does not include a bunch of dopes like us on some internet forum LOL
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What you say makes some sense. The APA could really use some work on their rulebook. It is excessively vague in many areas, completely omits many important considerations, and isn't organized particularly well.
That said, you can pretty much hinder your argument like so:
1) You can't use a specialty cue to jump
2) A regular playing cue is defined in the glossary as a cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in a game of pool.
3) You are intending to design a cue for the purpose of performing jump shots.
The loophole here is if you happen to play with a regular playing cue that has the same specs (tip and weight) as the cue you are "designing" for jump shot use. Though if that is the case, just use your regular playing cue.
Aaaannnnddd....checkmate. Sorry.
KMRUNOUT
I see what you're saying. And I love the statement "Aaaannnnddd....checkmate. Sorry." :smile:
If you read the glossary, it is a distinction of *design*, not use. The cue is either designed for a specialty purpose, or it isn't. It is irrelevant whether you use it once, every shot, or never.
If you intentionally put a rock hard tip on it, a tip that ISN'T on your playing cue, then it could be argued that you are "designing' the cue for a specialty purpose. Of course it could also be argued that you are trying out different playing tips and gosh, this one jumps pretty good...
KMRUNOUT