Tight pockets?
- Thread starter Socopool79
- Start date
I agree with you completely. The common thing I hear is "If you always play on tight pockets you won't learn to cheat the pockets for position."...ok, but how do these people not recognize the flip side : "if you only play on buckets, you won't learn to play position through *cueing*, in other words striking the cueball *exactly* where you need to to get the shape you need if you *have* to hit the center of the pocket.
Personally, I think accurate cueing is far more important than cheating pockets. If you can shoot accurately and cue the ball accurately, why screw around with cheating the pocket if you can just make it center of the hole and get the shape you want?
I don't think I'd want to play on very tight pockets all the time, but it is great for practice. And FYI, once you become comfortable with very small pockets, you absolutely *can* cheat those too. I use those Practice Pro pocket reducers. On my table they make about a 3.5" opening. I feel comfortable cheating those on occasion. RARE occassion lol.
If you're thinking of a home table, I think you should go for the tight side of average...say 4.5" or maybe 4 3/8" or something. You could always use the reducers if you want a focus or accuracy workout. This way I think you will cover all your bases well.
Good luck,
KMRUNOUT
Pool is all about confidence.
Very tight pockets destroy confidence.
Do the math.
I have a Diamond pro with very tight pockets.
Every day when I practice straight pool I run 60 or more 2 or three times.
My run is most often ended not by a missed ball, but by a ball hit inside a pocket that does not go. That is just not fair. Speed should not keep a ball from staying in the pocket. If it is hit in the pocket it should stay in.
Those of you that think tight pockets are the way to go simply don't play well enough to appreciate what it takes to play really well.
Bill S.
Very tight pockets destroy confidence.
Do the math.
I have a Diamond pro with very tight pockets.
Every day when I practice straight pool I run 60 or more 2 or three times.
My run is most often ended not by a missed ball, but by a ball hit inside a pocket that does not go. That is just not fair. Speed should not keep a ball from staying in the pocket. If it is hit in the pocket it should stay in.
Those of you that think tight pockets are the way to go simply don't play well enough to appreciate what it takes to play really well.
Bill S.
Now Bill, I'm talking about practicing only, on a tight pocket table
I'm sure not for the rooms to put all 4 1/4" pockets on all their tables. As far as people with a different opinion than you have not playing well enough to know better, you have action with me if we run into each other.
I continue to believe that "tight" pockets are not particularly good or required to play pool at a high level. As has been mentioned, playing well combines many elements including strategic thought, proper cueing action, accuracy and more. Toward improving accuracy, I remain unconvinced that "loose" pockets damages or hinders pocketing accuracy. I know that when I play on "looser" tables I aim for a particular portion of the pocket, not just the pocket generally. I talked to Larry Price and he mentioned doing the same thing.
I have also spoken to John Brumback about tight pockets and he told me that they are no good for pool as well. He went on to say that if you want to play with tighter pockets, then why not just take up snooker.
In any event, everyone has preferences, but mine is that a standard Diamond Pro table gets it about as right as any table can regarding tightness. I will also say that if 14.1 became fashionable again, then I would vote against a table of even this tightness.
Anyway, for those interested in 12 pages of opinions on this matter, you can peruse this thread from a while back.
I have also spoken to John Brumback about tight pockets and he told me that they are no good for pool as well. He went on to say that if you want to play with tighter pockets, then why not just take up snooker.
In any event, everyone has preferences, but mine is that a standard Diamond Pro table gets it about as right as any table can regarding tightness. I will also say that if 14.1 became fashionable again, then I would vote against a table of even this tightness.
Anyway, for those interested in 12 pages of opinions on this matter, you can peruse this thread from a while back.
How is it possible to practice pocket cheating in tight pockets?...
Tight pockets narrow down position play, something that doesn't fit into pool.
Pool is played in smaller tables compared to Snooker for eg, thus smaller position areas which require a different kind of precision and that is part of the game's beauty. There is English pool which is a specific game played in specific conditions and has nothing to do with the rest of pool games.
Pool pockets shouldn't be too easy nor too difficult, that's it.
Tight pockets narrow down position play, something that doesn't fit into pool.
Pool is played in smaller tables compared to Snooker for eg, thus smaller position areas which require a different kind of precision and that is part of the game's beauty. There is English pool which is a specific game played in specific conditions and has nothing to do with the rest of pool games.
Pool pockets shouldn't be too easy nor too difficult, that's it.
My home table is a 5x10 and has tight corner pockets (4-1/4") and side pockets (5").
Playing equal offense forces me to spend more time thinking how to best play the shot and calculate the precise speed/spin necessary to get to the next shot.
And because I'm a "thinking" player as opposed to a "feel" player - successfully running out on my table has significantly greater personal satisfaction than on regular tables.
Yes, tight pockets will improve your game - IF you want to gain greater finesse. I'm far more interested in gaining greater CB control (down to the square inch, when possible).
Playing equal offense forces me to spend more time thinking how to best play the shot and calculate the precise speed/spin necessary to get to the next shot.
And because I'm a "thinking" player as opposed to a "feel" player - successfully running out on my table has significantly greater personal satisfaction than on regular tables.
Yes, tight pockets will improve your game - IF you want to gain greater finesse. I'm far more interested in gaining greater CB control (down to the square inch, when possible).
Short answer absolutely!
Long answer.
I do believe tighter pockets - not so much as regulation aramiths on a snooker table - but less forgiving pockets than a standard gold crown will aide you in some aspects of your game; assuming you possess good fundamentals and a solid understanding of pocket billiards to begin with.
And these are my reasons for why:
Accuracy - pocketing an object ball in the center of the pocket - on any size pocket - is a positive exercise which leads to more confidence. Gaining the knowledge and ability of consistently finding the center of the pocket on a tighter pocketed table opens up the possibilities tremendously on a table with more forgiving pockets. And as a player, is there a better sound than the 'smack' of the object ball connecting with the absolute center of that pocket backing?
Cue ball control - A tighter pocketed table forces you to rely less on "excessive" overspin and more on angles and speed which forces you to position the cue ball more accurately. On a more forgiving pocket you can definitely release your stroke letting the cue-ball embark on a spin-fueled journey several cushions around the table. I think many players prefer this flashier route, and this is also why many don't like tighter pockets. Not being able to over-cheat a pocket and spin the cue ball where ever you like makes you think harder and concentrate more on the specific placement of the cue-ball as well as the sequence of shots to follow.
Safety play - Good safety play is just as important an aspect of the game as any other in my opinion. Granted it's not as exciting as watching whitey careen wildly around the table, but safety play involves additional thought, requiring a player to further analyze the table layout this only leads a player to gain additional knowledge of pocket billiards.
Improving shot accuracy, cue-ball control and gaining safety play knowledge are my observations on why I personally think that practicing on a table with tighter pockets will assist with your game.
Steve H.
People talk about confidence being everything in pool, but what would give you more confidence than knowing you can fire balls into tight pockets while others struggle on them?
We have a hall nearby where all the pockets are on the tight side and it continually churns out the top players in the area.
We have a hall nearby where all the pockets are on the tight side and it continually churns out the top players in the area.
I was just in Olathe the other day, stopped in at Shooters, and really enjoyed playing the ghost on a fairly tight table, 4 1/4 inch pockets or so. I am fairly confident in saying that when you have a table that has a characteristic to slow you down and concentrate more on speed and accuracy it will help you achieve a better game. I would not enjoy the game as much if all tables were like that, but did enjoy it because of the challenge I had with my game. The best part of that session was the confidence I had on that table, not the other way around, it is easy to dismiss a miss because of tight pockets but what do you say when you continually run out on one?
Practicing on tight pockets does not improve your pocketing skill on looser tables. It simply limits your ability to cheat the pockets when you need to.
It is much easier to go from loose to tight pockets. Just move closer to the center of the cue ball.
As I said before. Lassiter was the best tight pocket player of his era and he practiced on 5 1/2 inch pockets every day to develop rhythm.
Bill S.
It is much easier to go from loose to tight pockets. Just move closer to the center of the cue ball.
As I said before. Lassiter was the best tight pocket player of his era and he practiced on 5 1/2 inch pockets every day to develop rhythm.
Bill S.
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Usually every room I have gone to have a tighter table. It is usually the one nearest the register, but not always.
So I have probably seen this 100 times.
Ken
If we did what golf does, it would be just fine. Golf adjusts the playing surface to make the game more challenging. We already do some of that now by going from a 7' bar box to a 9' regulation table. We can use a slow thick nappy cloth or a super fine fast cloth. A lot can be done with cushions to make things different. Golf never shrinks the hole and we should not either.
What you folks don't understand is just how fragile any sport's success and popularity is. One small change can destroy a sport. Pool became popular because of what it was. This trend to make pool harder by shrinking pockets, calling balls, adding a ball to nine-ball, and going to 10' tables, all added togeather, is taking it's toll. Pool is evolving itself right into a corner (a smaller and smaller market).
In this thread we read the opinions of Luther Lassiter, John Brumback, Buddy Hall, and Bill Stroud (a fine player in his own right). Aspiring players can't get better advice than this.
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Again, I' talking about practicing of a tight pocket table to improve your overall game, to play on other tables.. I have not in anyway said we need rooms with tighter pockets. Shane can get on here and say its bad to practice on a tight pocket table and it might be for him, but I know it improved my game all around, back when I really played.
There is no way anyone is going to go from a table with 5" pockets and then play better on a table with 4 1/4" pockets. You have it backwards. Bill, I know you have been a great player for many years, but there is no way I agree with you on this. But, its just my opinion on what I know has always worked for me.
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This is my opinion also. If I had a table at home, it would have 4 1/4" pockets and would make the other tables play much easier. If Bills correct, that would mean someone could go from a bar box with buckets and play better on a tight table. Doesn't work that way.
I do think there is a point where the pockets are too tight, and other than 1 pocket 4" pockets on a diamond are too tight. I remember a table at Conyers, Georgia that had 3 7/8" pockets and to me, that's going too far. Of course I heard Danny was running out on it like it had 4 1/2" pockets, which I would have loved to have seen. Maybe playing on that table made him make the big jump he made in a year.
You have people claim they cheat 3 1/2" pockets. One guy who use to post here claimed he could put the cue ball in the jaws of one corner pocket, having to jack up some, and the ob in the center of the table, and he could consistently cheat 4" pockets, and had been doing it for 46 years. I guess I can to, sitting here on the computer.
Improvement in fundamentals will improve your ball making percentage. Nothing else.
I can accept that some players would normally almost never work on their fundamentals unless they're somehow forced to. Tight pocket table just might be the incentive that they needed. They just might get the extra challenge, fall in love with it and put in far more hours of practice than they normally would. That is the only way a tight pocket table would help IMO. But those are rare cases I beileve.
Most guys try tight pockets a little and then later on a loose table they talk about how everything is so easy. But I still see them miss. A lot. It was just the placebo effect I'm afraid.
I can accept that some players would normally almost never work on their fundamentals unless they're somehow forced to. Tight pocket table just might be the incentive that they needed. They just might get the extra challenge, fall in love with it and put in far more hours of practice than they normally would. That is the only way a tight pocket table would help IMO. But those are rare cases I beileve.
Most guys try tight pockets a little and then later on a loose table they talk about how everything is so easy. But I still see them miss. A lot. It was just the placebo effect I'm afraid.