Why Didnt The Right English Take?

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, I know everybody gets fooled every now and then by where the CB goes. Even the best players in the world do at times. But on this shot here, someone explain to me why the right English didn't take.

I hit this shot with a tip of right English, hoping to bounce off the rail where the black CB is and back over for the 2-Ball. But instead the English didn't have any effect and the CB came straight across where the red CB is and bounced back out to about the spot.

I even set the shot up two more times and hit it with a tip of right English and got the same result. Why didn't the right English take here???

r/DCP


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/f0abd.png
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Maybe you're hitting the one too thin. Try hitting it a touch thicker. Or try about 1/2 tip of draw with that right spin.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, the follow will tend to push the cue ball down table, so you are working against that. Your "one tip" might be less than my "one tip".

In any case, there are two things to try here. First, move the cue ball much closer to the one ball and try the shot some more. Second, repeat the shot as a practice where you take the cue ball across the table to each diamond or even half-diamond in succession.

On all your shots, work on putting the one ball in the center of the pocket. Do not attempt to cheat the pocket on this shot. It's got enough complication without risking the miss.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
you may not have hit where you thought
or
you needed more right
and/or
alittle low too
to me at that angle without being on a table to try
one tip right would go straight across
jmho
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Heres my guess...

Hit that shot with no english and the 2 ball out of the way. See where it goes.

I think you have enough angle that a rolling cueball will want to follow forward some. I assume you’re not between a 1/4 and 3/4 ball hit so you’re not quite rolling forward 30 degrees. You look like a 1/8 ball hit. Perhaps you’d roll forward more like 15-20 degrees.

I assume at the speed to get where you’re targeting, a center ball hit will transition to rolling (not sliding). So a tip of center right, means the right english is fighting that 15-20 degrees I mentioned above. It probably cancelling it out near equally. You either need to add another tip right to pull it back the additional amount to reach your black target...or a tip or so of draw to ensure the cueball is sliding at point of contact with the object ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, I know everybody gets fooled every now and then by where the CB goes. Even the best players in the world do at times. But on this shot here, someone explain to me why the right English didn't take.

I hit this shot with a tip of right English, hoping to bounce off the rail where the black CB is and back over for the 2-Ball. But instead the English didn't have any effect and the CB came straight across where the red CB is and bounced back out to about the spot.

I even set the shot up two more times and hit it with a tip of right English and got the same result. Why didn't the right English take here???

r/DCP




https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/f0abd.png


If your hitting it with high right, the topspin may be counteracting the little bit of right that you're using. Try hitting center right. Make sure you're hitting center and not a tip above. Many players think center is higher than it really is because we're looking down on the cue ball from our stance and it's a bit deceiving.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...the follow will tend to push the cue ball down table, so you are working against that.
Yup.

I think you have enough angle that a rolling cueball will want to follow forward some.
Yup.

If your hitting it with high right, the topspin may be counteracting the little bit of right that you're using.
Yup.

In other words, the right English did take, but was counteracted by the follow.

pj <- did I mention "Yup"?
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...the right English did take, but was counteracted by the follow.
As a rule of thumb, a centerball rolling 45-degree cut on a rail-frozen OB will follow forward ~1 diamond past straight crosstable, more if the OB is off the rail like this. Your outside spin has to be enough to overcome that plus add whatever additional reverse angle you want.

I think the solution is to add low, even without sidespin when practical. A side benefit of hitting lower is that it adds to the outside spin transferred from the OB, helping the cause. In this case I think I'd use all low to go across table and back, only adding outside spin if I needed to hold the CB with a softer hit.

pj
chgo
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
After actually setting the shot up and shooting it several different ways, I found I get the best results by hitting it exactly like you (OP) were trying to do. About a tip of right spin, no draw, no top, and medium-soft speed. Using bottom right I come too close to a side pocket scratch. Using straight draw I need to hit it firm enough to go back and forth for shape. But hitting straight right works every time. Maybe Fran nailed it with thinking you might be striking slightly above center on the cb without realizing it. It's pretty common.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After actually setting the shot up and shooting it several different ways, I found I get the best results by hitting it exactly like you (OP) were trying to do. About a tip of right spin, no draw, no top, and medium-soft speed. Using bottom right I come too close to a side pocket scratch. Using straight draw I need to hit it firm enough to go back and forth for shape. But hitting straight right works every time. Maybe Fran nailed it with thinking you might be striking slightly above center on the cb without realizing it. It's pretty common.

Yup. The side pocket scratch is why I suggested center right and not low right. From the looks of the diagram, the shot is in side pocket scratch territory with low right. It depends on how close the ob is to the rail. That will determine how much you can draw out of the scratch angle. If it's close to the rail, fuhgeddaboudit. Stick with center right.

There actually is a way to draw past the side pocket if the ob is close to the rail, but it's a wacky finesse shot. I did it once in a tournament and I had to completely release the cue. It worked, but the cue stick hit the side rail with a loud 'wack" and then fell to the floor, which, btw, I was expecting to happen. The spectators weren't though, and they thought I made some kind of crazy blunder.
 
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