non-bridge hand position

Lockbox said:

Question for all of you - i'm noticing that in my warm up straight-in shots, the greatest variability comes from having my right hand position (i'm right handed) too high or too low on the cue.

Keeping my feet, the Cue/Object ball position and subsequent bridge hand position on the table constant, and just varying my right hand position brings a variety of results.

My question is, does anyone have any methods they use to determine if their right hand is in the right position? Using a pendulum stroke, it seems that the ideal setup at address would be to have that hand perpendicular to the ground. Thoughts on how to achieve this?

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Relax all arm muscles except those holding your elbow in place. Let gravity show you what perpendicular is.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

Relax all arm muscles except those holding your elbow in place. Let gravity show you what perpendicular is.

pj
chgo

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Lockbox said:

To the extent that you have to hold the cue, this is not practicable.

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Uh... don't relax your hand completely.

pj <- guess it needed to be said after all
chgo

Bob Jewett said:

I think the "orthodox" grip places the axis of the cue stick directly under the axis of the bones of the forearm.

(The axis of the cue stick is the imaginary line between the center of the tip and the center of the bumper, down the "core" of the cue stick.)

That placement requires the the back of the hand to be out a little to the outside and the thumb to be in a little to the inside. That means that the back of the hand will not be in the same line as the back/outside of the forearm; instead it will be bent out a little.

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Are you saying the hand is naturally "pronated" a little (back of palm a little off the stick)? That position also tends to un-grip the back fingers and promote a 2-finger-and-thumb grip (which I like).

pj
chgo

Lockbox said:

If a player is describing an in ability to accurate gauge whether their hand is perpendicular to the ground or not while holding a cue, the advice of "just relax" and let gravity show you doesn't help

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I'm sure you know best.

pj
chgo

Lockbox said:

Let me put it another way - your advice is not very good. If a player is describing an in ability to accurate gauge whether their hand is perpendicular to the ground or not while holding a cue, the advice of "just relax" and let gravity show you doesn't help. Mainly, in my mind, due to the fact that your muscles are still constricted due to holding the cue in the first place, but also probably because even if the arm is "relaxed" a player may not feel what perpendicular is. Maybe i'm just looking for gimmicky advice and the HAMB method is where I need to go...

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Set up a shot where your grip hand is close to the rail......CB somewhere near the middle of the table. Then, while still in your set up position, lay the butt of the cue on the rail. Then really relax from the elbow to your hand and let gravity take over (your shoulder muscles are what is holding the elbow in position while doing this). When your hand and forearm become motionless, this should be close to where you want to be.....then pick up the cue from that position (tip has to be at set position very close to the CB while doing this).

You should find that your grip hand will be very close to being directly over your right foot.

Could be done with pronation from the elbow or with palmar flexion from the wrist.

Lockbox said:

Question for all of you - i'm noticing that in my warm up straight-in shots, the greatest variability comes from having my right hand position (i'm right handed) too high or too low on the cue.

Keeping my feet, the Cue/Object ball position and subsequent bridge hand position on the table constant, and just varying my right hand position brings a variety of results.

My question is, does anyone have any methods they use to determine if their right hand is in the right position? Using a pendulum stroke, it seems that the ideal setup at address would be to have that hand perpendicular to the ground. Thoughts on how to achieve this?

Click to expand...

Let's go a little deeper here. What specifically happens when your hand is too high and too low on the cue? Do you over cut the shot? Do you undercut? Miss to the left? Miss to the right? Have you analyzed exactly what's going on, or are you just saying that it's different but you don't know in what way?

Also, what's the distance from your chin to the cue when you're in your shooting stance? Right on the cue? Three inches above? Six inches above?

Back of hand at pocket seam of your jeans.
tip to ball......
Get into stance, hip moves automatically away from the hand
Point the thumb down.


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greyghost said:

Back of hand at pocket seam of your jeans.
tip to ball......
Get into stance, hip moves automatically away from the hand
Point the thumb down.


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Can you explain this, please? The thumb isn't already down? What do you mean, may I ask?

Lockbox said:

It does vary. However, I would say when I believe my hand is too close to the tip, I steer the cue ball to the right. My belief is that this is a function of "pulling" the cue into my chest more than I would have had it been in the right position at address.

My chin is typically touching the cue whenever I shoot.

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The sentence you wrote about pulling the cue into your chest more because your hand is farther forward doesn't compute in my brain. I can't picture it.

Holding the cue too far forward means you're striking the cue ball later than you should. It basically means that you're striking the ball in your follow through position. If you're saying that you find that you pull your cue more into your chest when your hand is forward, then it may mean that you aren't following through when your hand is in the correct position, and that opens up a whole other can of worms -- as we say in New York City.

Since you stand low, it's pretty easy to feel your arm below your elbow hanging straight down from your elbow. That should be approximately the point where the tip should contact the cue ball. It's really one of the easiest feels in the game, IMO. You just have to practice it.

You just have to spend some time practicing this and it won't take long to get your right hand in the correct position. Even when you change your bridge length your grip position will automaticly change with it, otherwise it will feel very strange to you.
First, mark your shaft with something to locate your bridge hand. Always use this position for your practice sessions.
Now locate your grip hand position. Have a friend observe and tell you when it's in position. Put a rubber band on the butt of cue to mark that position. Could be front or back of hand, whichever you prefer. Now your 2 hands are the right distance apart and you can start ingraining this into your muscle memory.
Start shooting shots while being very aware that your hands are on those marks.
Don't shoot any shots where the CB is close to the rail or where you'd have to stretch as that would cause you changing your bridge length.
Everyone's different but I'd say if you could do an hour or 2 a day for 4 or 5 straight sessions you'd be all set.
You could play regular games in between but it will slow down the process. If you do, still use the hand position guides whenever possible.
As has been stated, correct grip hand position is forearm straight down and at 90 degrees to upper arm **.
** If you take a look at 100 pros you'll see that 95+% will be slightly ahead of 90 degrees at CB contact and the rest will be at 90. I don't think I"ve ever seen a good player with their grip arm back from 90 degrees. Just doesn't happen.

BilliardsAbout said:

Can you explain this, please? The thumb isn't already down? What do you mean, may I ask?

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The anterior side of the forearm to the wrist is usually set up straight.....we are looking for the interior side of the forearm and wrist to straighten this will bring the thumb directly down and plumb for most.

This position places the gap that the cue will be held in the back hand directly under the shoulder and elbow when down. Keeps that line quite tidy and true


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greyghost said:

The anterior side of the forearm to the wrist is usually set up straight.....we are looking for the interior side of the forearm and wrist to straighten this will bring the thumb directly down and plumb for most.

This position places the gap that the cue will be held in the back hand directly under the shoulder and elbow when down. Keeps that line quite tidy and true


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Click to expand...

I follow--I think of that as "thumb in" and "not down", but your explanation made it crystal clear to me. Thanks!