bluestone & slate

timsmcm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is there a way to tell the difference between bluestone and slate on a fully assembled gold crown 1? If I am going to spend the money (I am not seeing these low prices like some people are saying) I want slate, not some knockoff. I don't want some sagging & bowing happening down the road. Or would it be better to just find a 4 or 5?
 

tjohnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is there a way to tell the difference between bluestone and slate on a fully assembled gold crown 1? If I am going to spend the money (I am not seeing these low prices like some people are saying) I want slate, not some knockoff. I don't want some sagging & bowing happening down the road. Or would it be better to just find a 4 or 5?

Do you mean Brunstone?

Brunstone is a fine-grained sandstone and will have a slight reddish-brown tint to it. With a 10x magnifier, you can actually see the small sand particles in the rock. Slate should be gray. I have Brunstone in my GC1 and it seems fine but others more knowledgeable than I can tell you the pros and cons. One drawback of Brunstone is that it is more brittle than slate so it is more prone to cracking.
 

timsmcm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No I mean bluestone. I hear that most gold crown 1 tables had either brunstone or bluestone, no slate. And I hear both have a tendency to sag or bow over time. I am looking at a 1 that is nice but won't be able to look at it apart so I can see the top of the slates unless I purchase it. If it were in pieces it would be better. From what I have been reading on these forums is slate and bluestone almost look alike.
 

tjohnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No I mean bluestone. I hear that most gold crown 1 tables had either brunstone or bluestone, no slate. And I hear both have a tendency to sag or bow over time. I am looking at a 1 that is nice but won't be able to look at it apart so I can see the top of the slates unless I purchase it. If it were in pieces it would be better. From what I have been reading on these forums is slate and bluestone almost look alike.

Oh ok, my bad. I didn't know about GC 1s and "bluestone", thought they had brunstone only. Thanks for the info!

EDIT: Apology rescinded, lol, GC1s had Brunstone, not Bluestone. Thanks RKC.
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
No I mean bluestone. I hear that most gold crown 1 tables had either brunstone or bluestone, no slate. And I hear both have a tendency to sag or bow over time. I am looking at a 1 that is nice but won't be able to look at it apart so I can see the top of the slates unless I purchase it. If it were in pieces it would be better. From what I have been reading on these forums is slate and bluestone almost look alike.

Bluestone is brunstone with the surface pours sealed with a bluish wax, intended to smooth out the surface of the brunstone. I've only come across it a few times in GC2s.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Rkc, is it possible for a gold crown 1 to have a slate bed?

Not unless it's been replaced, factory playing surfaces were made out of Brunstone until about 78'-80' when Brunswick went back to real slate from Italy during the GC3 production years. Even the first production years of the GC3S came with Brunstone.
 
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PoolTable911

AdvancedBilliardSolutions
Silver Member
Not unless it's been replaced, factory playing surfaces were made out of Brunstone until about 78'-80' when Brunswick went back to real slate from Italy during the GC3 production years. Even the first production years of the GC3S came with Brunstone.

Glenn,
Interesting post. Can I verify this information anywhere? Just curious.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
http:ds.com/showpost.php?p=2180184&postcount=10

Look at the option for the GC3 playing surface....1" frame slate or 1 1/4" framed Brunstone....ever see a 1 1/4" framed Brunstone playing surface on any GC? Brunswick shut down their Vermont slate mines because of the WWll' war effort, and consequently never reopened them after the war was over. They had stock piles of slates for all the other sizes of pool tables they produced, but no 9ft slates as we know them being oversized slates today. Their first need for over sized 9ft slates started with the Cenntennials and Anniversaries, to which they had no slates to fit, so they contracted out Brunstone to be made to fill the need, as it was cheaper to produce than it was to mine slate. That didn't change until the late 70s. Other table manufacturers resorted to the use of the Brunstone as well as they bought from Brunswick.
 

PoolTable911

AdvancedBilliardSolutions
Silver Member
http:ds.com/showpost.php?p=2180184&postcount=10

Look at the option for the GC3 playing surface....1" frame slate or 1 1/4" framed Brunstone....ever see a 1 1/4" framed Brunstone playing surface on any GC? Brunswick shut down their Vermont slate mines because of the WWll' war effort, and consequently never reopened them after the war was over. They had stock piles of slates for all the other sizes of pool tables they produced, but no 9ft slates as we know them being oversized slates today. Their first need for over sized 9ft slates started with the Cenntennials and Anniversaries, to which they had no slates to fit, so they contracted out Brunstone to be made to fill the need, as it was cheaper to produce than it was to mine slate. That didn't change until the late 70s. Other table manufacturers resorted to the use of the Brunstone as well as they bought from Brunswick.

I can not open the link. Is it from Brunswick with all that info you just posted?
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member

PoolTable911

AdvancedBilliardSolutions
Silver Member
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2180184&postcount=10
Not until the GC3 did a buyer have a choice between Brunstone or Slate, but Brunswick put out all their remaining Brunstone playing surfaces on the 3's as well as all the remaining GC2 rails and hardware before they ever switched to the threaded inserts at the ends of the rails.

That was put out in the late 90's by who? My point to this is the history of the gold crowns is sketchy at best. Brunswick does not know or even care. There are plenty of people spouting their opinions. The old mechanics who were working on tables in the early 60's are the people I am looking to hear from. No offense Glenn, but this is before your time. After you got out of the military you worked on a thousand coin ops a year. This is what you told me. I know you have worked on plenty of Gold Crowns. But so have a lot of us. History needs to be passed on from generation to generation. I for one enjoy your posts. But let's see if any older guys are around on this one.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
The old mechanics who were working on tables in the early 60's are the people I am looking to hear from. No offense Glenn, but this is before your time.

Pat, I fail to understand your reasoning, you didn't have to live and work on pool tables in the late 50' & 60's to learn something special about working on those pool tables. Mechanics that worked on them way back then may not be around today....but, the exact same tables they worked on are everywhere....including all the ones THEY worked on, and many are still in original condition....worn out, beat up....but still original...so, what difference does it make in which era you're working on the pool tables? I've worked on Brunswick pool tables built in the 1800's....had to use the same tools today to take the tables apart that was needed back then too....the jobs when finished looked just like back then....new cloth....only a newer kind of cloth....and I stopped using tacks and a tack hammer....and started using a staple gun on those old ass tables.
 

timsmcm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not unless it's been replaced, factory playing surfaces were made out of Brunstone until about 78'-80' when Brunswick went back to real slate from Italy during the GC3 production years. Even the first production years of the GC3S came with Brunstone.

So can I ask why do people not like the cold crown iii tables? Seems to me if you could get real slate that would be the table to look for. I for one would not want to take a chance on anything else that is not slate. A table is like an investment for years to come. Why buy something that might crap out on you at any time. It would be just my luck I would buy a beautiful gold crown 1 and the slates in a year become bowed like a piece of yellow pine left out in the weather for years. Just sayin.
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
So can I ask why do people not like the cold crown iii tables? Seems to me if you could get real slate that would be the table to look for. I for one would not want to take a chance on anything else that is not slate. A table is like an investment for years to come. Why buy something that might crap out on you at any time. It would be just my luck I would buy a beautiful gold crown 1 and the slates in a year become bowed like a piece of yellow pine left out in the weather for years. Just sayin.

First of all, I wouldn't worry to much about the Brunstone, one of the 2 GC1'S I just rebuild and installed in California had the Brunstone playing surface, the second was Diamond slate from Italy....both are dead level.....and won't be falling apart in the next 100 years or so at least. If I were you, I'd be more concerned with whom you hire to work on the pool table.
 

PoolTable911

AdvancedBilliardSolutions
Silver Member
Pat, I fail to understand your reasoning, you didn't have to live and work on pool tables in the late 50' & 60's to learn something special about working on those pool tables. Mechanics that worked on them way back then may not be around today....but, the exact same tables they worked on are everywhere....including all the ones THEY worked on, and many are still in original condition....worn out, beat up....but still original...so, what difference does it make in which era you're working on the pool tables? I've worked on Brunswick pool tables built in the 1800's....had to use the same tools today to take the tables apart that was needed back then too....the jobs when finished looked just like back then....new cloth....only a newer kind of cloth....and I stopped using tacks and a tack hammer....and started using a staple gun on those old ass tables.

I asked a question on how the information on older tables has been documented. I don't know why you singled out the comment above. I asked you a question and that was it. I am interested in history and want to know more. That is my reasoning. No hidden agenda here. You of all people know I'll call bullshit if I hear it.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I asked a question on how the information on older tables has been documented. I don't know why you singled out the comment above. I asked you a question and that was it. I am interested in history and want to know more. That is my reasoning. No hidden agenda here. You of all people know I'll call bullshit if I hear it.

Well then Pat, in the absence of written word because of the fire that took place at the Brunswick factory, then taking the Navaho way of reciting history, it's passed down by word of mouth from the elders to the next generation down.....the "way it was" as a matter of fact....LMAO
 

TableTek

New member
Silver Member
Bullshit Flag engaged

Well then Pat, in the absence of written word because of the fire that took place at the Brunswick factory, then taking the Navaho way of reciting history, it's passed down by word of mouth from the elders to the next generation down.....the "way it was" as a matter of fact....LMAO

Is this kinda like "Christopher Columbus discovered North America" or "Vietnam was a conflict and not a war" or how about "Its not you, its me!"... I too am very interested in seeing your references on this. In that Bluestone is a natural stone mined in northern PA. Even though your Blue Wax theory was obvious BS, you are correct in that Bluestone is sedimentary sandstone while slate is also sedimentary but from mica.

Here is my reference, it is an easy read..

http://www.ehow.com/list_7466991_differences-bluestone-slate.html


You know you missed me Glen!
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
Not to pick a nit, but it is technically not correct to call slate a sedimentary rock, and the ehow article states. It is a metamorphic rock, created as described by having mud shales put under pressure and temperature.

Tony --> Seen a lot of shale and slate in NE PA, and not a fan of Ehow.

Regardless of all of it, my GCII has a brunstone bed, that is as level today as when it was first made.




Is this kinda like "Christopher Columbus discovered North America" or "Vietnam was a conflict and not a war" or how about "Its not you, its me!"... I too am very interested in seeing your references on this. In that Bluestone is a natural stone mined in northern PA. Even though your Blue Wax theory was obvious BS, you are correct in that Bluestone is sedimentary sandstone while slate is also sedimentary but from mica.

Here is my reference, it is an easy read..

http://www.ehow.com/list_7466991_differences-bluestone-slate.html


You know you missed me Glen!
 
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