Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page How long has the idea of a Carbon Fiber shaft been around?
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
How long has the idea of a Carbon Fiber shaft been around?
Old
  (#1)
poolcuekid3275
Banned
poolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 50
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2020
   
How long has the idea of a Carbon Fiber shaft been around? - 07-02-2020, 11:16 PM

I understand that Becue was the 1st cue maker to come out with a Carbon fiber shaft, and the entire cue was / is actually made out of Carbon Fiber?

I just wonder if or when any cue makers seriously considered trying to come out with a CF shaft or CF cue.

Had anyone here ever heard the idea of a CF shaft or complete CF cue before Becue came out with theirs?

Lastly, do you think that CF will be around forever, with pool cues, or might pool players eventually want to go back to using wood shafts?

Many players still prefer a wooden shaft, and some players just can't afford the high price of a CF shaft, so maybe both options will be around forever.

Or, if the CF shaft options ever get cheap enough, then maybe the wood options will become extinct.

Thanks for any thoughts and / or info about this.

Last edited by poolcuekid3275; 07-02-2020 at 11:18 PM.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
Buzzard II
AzB Silver Member
Buzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond reputeBuzzard II has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 886
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NoVA
   
07-03-2020, 04:39 AM

Fifty three years ago my first cue was, aluminum, all aluminum. Talk about ping. It never had a chance of replacing wood. Now carbon fiber. Only time will tell on its replacing wood. But something else will come along to give CF a run too. It does make a nice fishing rod. Camera tripods too. But nobody uses real cameras anymore either. Do you see what I'm getting at?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
garczar
AzB Silver Member
garczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,882
vCash: 500
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murica
   
07-03-2020, 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolcuekid3275 View Post
I understand that Becue was the 1st cue maker to come out with a Carbon fiber shaft, and the entire cue was / is actually made out of Carbon Fiber?

I just wonder if or when any cue makers seriously considered trying to come out with a CF shaft or CF cue.

Had anyone here ever heard the idea of a CF shaft or complete CF cue before Becue came out with theirs?

Lastly, do you think that CF will be around forever, with pool cues, or might pool players eventually want to go back to using wood shafts?

Many players still prefer a wooden shaft, and some players just can't afford the high price of a CF shaft, so maybe both options will be around forever.

Or, if the CF shaft options ever get cheap enough, then maybe the wood options will become extinct.

Thanks for any thoughts and / or info about this.
Carbon-fiber is an ideal material for light, stiff tubes, be it golf shafts, cues, bikes, rackets, etc. Its is here forever. Good wood is getting harder to get and then it has to be aged/turned properly. CF is like baking a cake, you can duplicate it a zillion times. I've talked to couple cuemakers who told me they don't think they'll be using wood for shafts in the near future. Now with all the blanks offered this conversion to cf is going to be even greater.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Bob Jewett
AZB Osmium Member
Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Bob Jewett's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 18,814
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
07-03-2020, 08:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolcuekid3275 View Post
... I just wonder if or when any cue makers seriously considered trying to come out with a CF shaft or CF cue....
Predator had a carbon fiber prototype in 1998 at the time of the Jacksonville experiments, which were written up in Billiards Digest in several articles in 1999. Here is a high-speed video of the CF shaft hitting a cue ball at 12,000 frames per second. The shaft did not play well for spin shots.

Part of an article:

Name:  CropperCapture[573].jpg
Views: 386
Size:  83.1 KB

The Billiards Digest articles about the Jacksonville experiments are available on the sfbilliards.com web site under the miscellaneous files link.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
garczar
AzB Silver Member
garczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,882
vCash: 500
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murica
   
07-03-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Predator had a carbon fiber prototype in 1998 at the time of the Jacksonville experiments, which were written up in Billiards Digest in several articles in 1999. Here is a high-speed video of the CF shaft hitting a cue ball at 12,000 frames per second. The shaft did not play well for spin shots.

Part of an article:

Attachment 552015

The Billiards Digest articles about the Jacksonville experiments are available on the sfbilliards.com web site under the miscellaneous files link.
They do now. New cf shafts combine both stiffness and light front-ends, something early ones did not.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
iusedtoberich
AzB Silver Member

iusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 12,641
vCash: 1470
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2004
   
07-03-2020, 09:12 AM

The idea probably originated the first time a pool player saw a carbon fiber tennis racket, golf club, or fishing pole.

Ideas are a dime a dozen, though. Itís the execution thatís worth something.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
poolcuekid3275
Banned
poolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond reputepoolcuekid3275 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 50
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2020
   
07-03-2020, 03:23 PM

Okay, so if the makers of Becue had not come out with this new technology, then I wonder if any other cue makers would have, in the near future.

I wonder if other cue makers had to study the Becue CF technology, to try to figure out how they did it.

Or, maybe many cue makers may have known how to build a CF shaft, but never thought it would be a good idea, until Becue came along, and players actually really loved the playability of their cues.

So, if it were not for Becue, then there might still be no CF shafts out there.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
Bob Jewett
AZB Osmium Member
Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Bob Jewett's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 18,814
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
07-03-2020, 03:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolcuekid3275 View Post
I understand that Becue was the 1st cue maker to come out with a Carbon fiber shaft ...
What was the date of introduction? What date was the Revo introduced?


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
garczar
AzB Silver Member
garczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,882
vCash: 500
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murica
   
07-03-2020, 03:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
What was the date of introduction? What date was the Revo introduced?
IIRC BeCue and Revo both showed up in '16.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
iusedtoberich
AzB Silver Member

iusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond reputeiusedtoberich has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 12,641
vCash: 1470
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2004
   
07-03-2020, 04:00 PM

I'm not certain but I think Predator might have released the Revo shaft before BeCue did? Or at the minimum, very close to each other.

Regardless, the Predator Revo shaft is what exploded the carbon fiber cue market, not the BeCue. The BeCue was and is a niche, like a custom cue. The Revo is priced like a custom cue, but everyone and their mother wants one. The Revo made the carbon fiber market. Everyone else is chasing them.

Also to the OP, check out this video from Predator about the history of the Revo shaft. Its super interesting, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDd6qOmjWvQ

I think there is also a longer version of it somewhere. Check Predator's YouTube page for it.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
garczar
AzB Silver Member
garczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond reputegarczar has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 11,882
vCash: 500
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murica
   
07-03-2020, 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
I'm not certain but I think Predator might have released the Revo shaft before BeCue did? Or at the minimum, very close to each other.

Regardless, the Predator Revo shaft is what exploded the carbon fiber cue market, not the BeCue. The BeCue was and is a niche, like a custom cue. The Revo is priced like a custom cue, but everyone and their mother wants one. The Revo made the carbon fiber market. Everyone else is chasing them.

Also to the OP, check out this video from Predator about the history of the Revo shaft. Its super interesting, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDd6qOmjWvQ

I think there is also a longer version of it somewhere. Check Predator's YouTube page for it.
Not knocking the Revo but Predator already had a huge customer base and worldwide distribution. BeCue started out kinda like a go fund me deal. Pred got the early market share but now there are a bunch making either complete shafts/cues or cf blanks to make your own shaft. It won't be long before we have a whole generation of players who will have never used, or cared about, wood shafts/cues.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
Rubik's Cube
Pool ball collector.
Rubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond repute
 
Rubik's Cube's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,036
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: England.
   
07-03-2020, 04:54 PM

Carbon fibre cues have been around for at least thirty years. I was selling them in the UK in the 1980s.


Pictures and descriptions of my pool ball collection and custom designs are gradually being uploaded to the AZB album area. If anyone would like to view these galleries as they grow, please click on the relevant link below.

Ball galleries: https://forums.azbilliards.com/album.php?albumid=2574

Custom designs: https://forums.azbilliards.com/album.php?albumid=2653

Best wishes,
RC.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
Rubik's Cube
Pool ball collector.
Rubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond reputeRubik's Cube has a reputation beyond repute
 
Rubik's Cube's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,036
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: England.
   
07-03-2020, 04:56 PM

There were also hybrid cues... carbon fibre shells with a wooden core.


Pictures and descriptions of my pool ball collection and custom designs are gradually being uploaded to the AZB album area. If anyone would like to view these galleries as they grow, please click on the relevant link below.

Ball galleries: https://forums.azbilliards.com/album.php?albumid=2574

Custom designs: https://forums.azbilliards.com/album.php?albumid=2653

Best wishes,
RC.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
asbani
AzB Silver Member
asbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond reputeasbani has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,871
vCash: 498
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Aug 2007
   
07-03-2020, 05:03 PM

Earl Strickland used to break with black CF back in 1991, I guess Earl always has been ahead of everybody else.

Oh btw, Cuetec used to make Fiber-carbon shaft that has the color of wood, but they were cheap and people thought they were bad, but I myself think they were great shafts.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
S.Vaskovskyi
AzB Silver Member
S.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond reputeS.Vaskovskyi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 656
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Kiev
   
07-03-2020, 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by poolcuekid3275 View Post
Okay, so if the makers of Becue had not come out with this new technology, then I wonder if any other cue makers would have, in the near future.

I wonder if other cue makers had to study the Becue CF technology, to try to figure out how they did it.

Or, maybe many cue makers may have known how to build a CF shaft, but never thought it would be a good idea, until Becue came along, and players actually really loved the playability of their cues.

So, if it were not for Becue, then there might still be no CF shafts out there.
So do you believe they in Predator ripped-off the idea of Becue? Were not first Revos offered already at the time the start-up of Becue was born?
When it comes to building those CF shafts...well once you found a supplier who offers quality cf blanks with the taper you really like you'll have so much more free time for something else useful in your craft not spending months on finishing great maple shafts when most new customers are not ready to spend the same money they do on cf shaft.

Here is a simple example from my experience. A few months ago I've got two orders for building the cues. One from my student who already had the cue with a linen wrap and a CF Cynergy shaft he bought for it. He liked a wrapless break/jump I've build for him he asked to build new wrapless player. So I got my motivation also to try "building" cf shaft myself.
Another customer liking some of my works I've shown and my 62" player with maple LD shaft asked to build him the cue the same length and similar LD shaft.
So I was glad to help and started my work on both orders at the same time.
The butts were ready for applying the finish almost at the same time. Maple LD shaft is still in the process. All the inserts at both ends are there, those months with turning the shaft slowly but surely to a final size and still it is not ready yet. At least two more passes and a month for finishing it.
Well for my student who is glad to try a new cf shaft the delay with the shaft was based only on this damn Covid 19. So the delay was with getting the blanks from a supplier. Finally got them three weeks ago. The first one built for myself to practice and then test at the table to be sure I'm satisfied with the result.
After testing it hardly for a week ...being happy with the performance and knowing what can be done better to simplify the process even more... started on a student's shaft at the beginning of this week...finished it yesterday evening. Of course I was very curious how this one performs due to some things were done with some difference. Tested it today on his future butt and absolutely happy with the result.
I had possibility to test Revo 12,9 , my student's Cynergy , Mezz Ignite so do have my opinion on their performance.
As a coach I had and have talented students reaching certain success in the game. One of them who was the best junior player at the time in my country recently asked if he could get any sponsorship so as many other his peers got.
Helped him with the letter to Taom to get his first sponsor. He asked if he could get another from Becue...ok...sent a letter to Alessandro...not receiving an answer...understood no interest. Had a second attempt with Goran at Go-customs...he replied fairly quickly saying he is pretty busy with some new stuff coming and asked to remind and apply later...after that having enough interest to get some new knowledge and experience in the game I love ...now having my new hobby and being able to help also with equipment to play with.
Had a serious talk with my students...made some investment to get finally my first own lathe to work on...got it last December and look: is it a rocket science if me starting not so long ago now feeling the difference in time being able to offer a cf shaft ready to play in a few days after having the blank in hands if comparing to wooden one?

Do cf shafts have their future? The answer is pretty obvious and for me in my new hobby if the new generation will choose cf shafts to play with they do my task so much easier you can't imagine if you never tried to build a quality maple LD shaft.

P.S. even me who is still enjoing playing with my maple shaft after testing cf shafts I've finished ...I've understood I will play with it more and more because I see mostly benefits either for technique (easier to be smooth especially when accelerating on the forward motion and follow through) or the maintance (just some wet wipes and paper towels after and you're clean and happy). Those in big companies producing these "revolutional know&how" might have their opinion on the subject and they are really good at the marketing...good for them).
Attached Images
  


Playing cue: 62" full spliced player I''ve built for myself
Break cue: made by myself

"Live and learn...and have fun"

Last edited by S.Vaskovskyi; 07-05-2020 at 06:23 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.