body anatomy relation to the stroke

z0nt0n3r said:

hi everyone i think this may be a strange question but can body anatomy inhibit someone from having a straight stroke?some people have asymmetrical skeletons (one arm more internally rotated and lower than the other,one leg shorter than the other,pelvis out of alignment etc and conditions like scoliosis and i wonder how/if this relates to the stroke.for example if someone has a misaligned jaw and his chin points slightly to one side,he will never be able to open and close his mouth in a straight line,his lower jaw will always veer slightly to one side as he opens his mouth.i'm wondering if the same can be true for the way someone's arm swings when moving the cue,because it always amazed me how some people can learn to stroke straight very quickly while others struggle for years and never make it,i mean how difficult can it be to move a piece of wood in a straight line?if someone in this thread claims that everybody can have a straight stroke,i want him to prove this with proper arguments and evidence.also if someone is a physical therapist or a chiropractor,i'm eager to hear his opinion..

Click to expand...

Everyone can have a straight stroke, yes, I've watched players run tables with one arm/prosthetics/bizarre grips and angles or done similar in a clinic. The issues that affect our perception of good play include:

1) The stroke can be fairly straight or even laser straight, but balls are missed because of faulty aim/aiming to the wrong portion of a pocket/not compensating for throw

2) The player's head position varies between shots, so their anatomy/mechanics work, but their aim is parallax/faulty on certain shots, causing frustrating inconsistency

3) The player has a straight stroke, but bangs the balls to hard, exacerbating multiple issues with squirt/deflection, etc.

4) The player has hampered their natural loop stroke because someone told them to practice using a Coke bottle and their timing is faulty

5) The player is doing something else funky, like jacking their stroke arm high in the air unconsciously on practice strokes, creating micro-jumps and excessive spin/curve on otherwise straight final strokes

The winning combination--a fairly straight stroke (need not be perfect) with consistent stance, knowledge of aim and spin, and the line of sight, aka vision center--the place where straight shots LOOK straight--centered over the shot line. Pool is a 3D game and a straight stroke has to come through an effective vertical plane . . .

That is really hard to read. Add a space or two between sentences and you'll get more replies.

z0nt0n3r said:

just edited it.

Click to expand...

Much better.

pj
chgo

z0nt0n3r said:

hi everyone i think this may be a strange question but can body anatomy inhibit someone from having a straight stroke?

some people have asymmetrical skeletons (one arm more internally rotated and lower than the other,one leg shorter than the other,pelvis out of alignment etc and conditions like scoliosis and i wonder how/if this relates to the stroke.

for example if someone has a misaligned jaw and his chin points slightly to one side,he will never be able to open and close his mouth in a straight line,his lower jaw will always veer slightly to one side as he opens his mouth.

i'm wondering if the same can be true for the way someone's arm swings when moving the cue,because it always amazed me how some people can learn to stroke straight very quickly while others struggle for years and never make it,i mean how difficult can it be to move a piece of wood in a straight line?

if someone in this thread claims that everybody can have a straight stroke,i want him to prove this with proper arguments and evidence.also if someone is a physical therapist or a chiropractor,i'm eager to hear his opinion..

Click to expand...

Let' say your theory is right. What part of the body would have to be malformed in order for the stroke to be naturally crooked?

z0nt0n3r said:

hi everyone i think this may be a strange question but can body anatomy inhibit someone from having a straight stroke?

some people have asymmetrical skeletons (one arm more internally rotated and lower than the other,one leg shorter than the other,pelvis out of alignment etc and conditions like scoliosis and i wonder how/if this relates to the stroke.

for example if someone has a misaligned jaw and his chin points slightly to one side,he will never be able to open and close his mouth in a straight line,his lower jaw will always veer slightly to one side as he opens his mouth.

i'm wondering if the same can be true for the way someone's arm swings when moving the cue,because it always amazed me how some people can learn to stroke straight very quickly while others struggle for years and never make it,i mean how difficult can it be to move a piece of wood in a straight line?

if someone in this thread claims that everybody can have a straight stroke,i want him to prove this with proper arguments and evidence.also if someone is a physical therapist or a chiropractor,i'm eager to hear his opinion..

Click to expand...

You write this on your phone??????????? Its virtually unreadable. There's this thing called" punctuation" you might look into.

z0nt0n3r said:

first of all i'm not claiming to be right,i'm not an expert,it's just a theory.if i had to guess it would be the elbow/forearm or wrist.

a person from an older thread made a similar post which motivated me to make this thread :

About 6 years ago, I noticed problems with the same thing you're experiencing. Tried all kinds of drills,(especially Bert's...who is a great guy) went to eye doctors, etc. and then by pure luck stumbled on to something.

I twisted my lower back working under the hood of a car and the pain just wouldn't go away so after 4-5 days I went to a chiropractor.

First thing she did was x-ray my spine and the films revealed that over the years one side of my pelvis had become slightly lower than the other side. Not much, not much at all. But it made me think about my game and that crooked stroke that had crept into being.
She gave me a thin pad to go into the heel of my right shoe.

Immediately I could feel a difference.
When getting back on the pool table, I could see that there was no longer a crooked stroke....in fact it was like the days of my youth.

Now I don't promote a pad in a shoe or a chiropractic visit to be a panacea for all stroke problems, but it only stands to reason that if the head was out of alignment over that cue stick, then what I thought I was seeing was different from what I was actually doing. Resulting in a crooked stroke.

Click to expand...

I don't know because I have one leg shorter than the other too. I don't think it's uncommon. In my case, I'm not limping but it's pretty close to that and I know it's there. A chiropractor once told me I have over 70% of my weight on one leg due to this issue. I did manage to become a professional player, though and I can pocket those tough shots just as good as the best of 'em.

As for the proof you're asking for, I think you have it a bit backwards. I believe the burden of proof is on you since you're the one presenting the theory. Asking us to prove that it's not an issue would be like asking someone to prove they're not guilty.

Now, as for your particular presentation of proof, well, as you can imagine, based on my similar issue which may even be worse than yours, I'd have to say it's not quite the proof that would convince someone like me.

No one has a perfect anatomy, and I think we all find ways to compensate without realizing we're doing it. It may or may not be a coincidence that the foot pad happened to work for you, but I wouldn't take it to the bank as a permanent fix just yet.

hi..not an instructor
but interesting thread idea and worth thinking about, I think
there are probably impediments to this and/or that
and maybe considering them can help one overcome
in most cases tho, I agree with this:

FranCrimi said:

No one has a perfect anatomy, and I think we all find ways to compensate without realizing we're doing it.

Click to expand...

A “straight stroke” is a result.

Most anyone should be able to achieve that, even though some compensation for personal circumstances may need to occur to do so.

I’m still working on mine... :frown:

While what Bob Jewett says may be true. I have had extensive success helping students with physical issues learn how to fit their stroke to their body. If you're standing or moving in a way that causes pain, that's not good. I can help you figure out how to change things so that everything works for you. Each person is an individual, so there's no pat explaination on how to fix this, but there is a solution for just about every problem. It's different with every person.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

z0nt0n3r said:

first of all it wasn't me who had the lower pelvis and used the foot pad to correct it, it was just a post that i found from somebody else on an older thread that motivated me to make this thread.

no i don't have to prove anything because i didn't make any claim to know something for sure,i'm just responding to the claims some people make on these forums, that "everybody can have a straight stroke" without giving evidence.they are most likely to be instructors and i think they always say it so that they gain more clients and more money.

and based on the lack of evidence i got on this thread i would say that nobody has any evidence about this subject and they are just making claims out of thin air but i'm still waiting to be corrected .

Click to expand...

So you saw a post somewhere else and you're just curious? How about next time you ask a question that affects you or someone you know directly and we'll try to help. Okay? And yes, the burden of proof would have been on you based on the way you worded your initial post, so next time pay attention to how you ask your question and maybe it will make things clearer for the rest of us.

z0nt0n3r said:

first of all it wasn't me who had the lower pelvis and used the foot pad to correct it, it was just a post that i found from somebody else on an older thread that motivated me to make this thread.

no i don't have to prove anything because i didn't make any claim to know something for sure,i'm just responding to the claims some people make on these forums, that "everybody can have a straight stroke" without giving evidence.they are most likely to be instructors and i think they always say it so that they gain more clients and more money.

and based on the lack of evidence i got on this thread i would say that nobody has any evidence about this subject and they are just making claims out of thin air but i'm still waiting to be corrected .

Click to expand...

My evidence on the subject is anecdotal, however, many people who claim a (relatively) straight stroke is impossible, because they play inconsistently, have inconsistent aim as described.

To that end, I do a mix of free lessons for the needy and getting paid well to help people with a range of issues that helps them play MUCH better. By the way, I don't say "Everyone can have a straight stroke!", I say "It's a myth that you need superb hand-eye coordination or athletic talent to play pool at a high level. Most players needs stance and aim adjustments, plus some key knowledge."

You made a claim that a person who is anatomically able to move an object in space cannot move that object along a straight path. I disagree. Do you have evidence for your claim?

I'm not trying to hassle you but a fraction of a fraction of pool players take lessons and most instructors can help most players, so I dislike hearing we're liars who make unproven claims for money.

We have a great PBIA/SPF instructor in Germany! He posts here all the time. He also has worked with some students in other countries (including this one) via Skype! His name is Ingo Peter. :grin:

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

z0nt0n3r said:

thanks but i don't live in the usa.

Click to expand...