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Drew
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10-21-2009, 02:08 PM

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Originally Posted by jsp View Post
Lol.

Do you think fractional reserve banking is okay, Drew? Are you in favor of a gold standard? Just curious.
I'll keep it brief because we've discussed this before.

Paper money does not have to be backed by gold...it can be fish, peanuts, moon rocks, or anything else which is agreed to have value (I think we've had this conversation before). The parties doing the agreeing doesn't even have to be a majority of the population. It takes two parties to make a transaction and just as many parties to agree upon valuations.

Money CANNOT be forced, as it is now. In other words, Federal Reserve Notes exist for one reason alone--the Federal Government forces us to use them.

Regarding fraudulent reserve banking, it is fraud!! In fact, it is more government tinkering that makes fraudulent reserve banking possible. With the lender of last resort (who just happens to own a printing press), there is no risk in a banking institution lending money which does exist. The banksters would have to be very careful about using other people's money if there wasn't a money tree to temporarily cover the debts. Just imagine how much the reputation of a bank would suffer when people aren't able to get their money because it's tied up in a loan (which wasn't authorized by the owner of said money). Without big brother to protect the children, banks would be forced to ask their depositers before loaning the cash.
  
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10-21-2009, 02:08 PM

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Originally Posted by T-dog View Post
Well i dont know that. I think that the appraiser used the sf of the basement in the assessment. Thats all .....

I need to check the amount of SF we are being taxed against from our assesor
Ok, so you got a home loan for a certain amount....

And then you took out an equity loan for a different amount.....

And now it's the banks fault????

And now you are looking to sue them????

With all sincerity, I don't think the bank is necessarily the problem here.....at any point, you had the option to pay cash for the house....at any point, you had the option to use an independent appraiser.....at any point, you could have just researched what homes were selling for in your area.....and on top of all that, many homes are worth only 50-80% of their value only 2-3 years ago because of the issues with the economy and the real estate market....

I don't see where the bank has any ownership here.....they cannot guarantee the value of your home.....and they didn't force you to get any type of loan at any time????


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10-21-2009, 02:27 PM

I have checking, savings, and money market accounts with Navy Federal Credit Union. Those accounts are all I will ever need.
  
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10-22-2009, 04:08 AM

Our family wealth is ultimately insured by a consortium of Sig-Sauer, Colt, and Kimber.

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10-22-2009, 05:55 AM

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Our family wealth is ultimately insured by a consortium of Sig-Sauer, Colt, and Kimber.

LWW
Now THAT is an honest integration of reality.

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  (#51)
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10-22-2009, 06:10 AM

Thanks ... I might add that unauthorized withdrawals are subject to significant penalties.

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10-22-2009, 06:21 AM

That self-protection is the irrefutable, undeniable, unchangeable nature of the universe. It is the final battel line, so to speak.

I'll add here that that is also part and parcel of the 99% anarchy done daily by all individuals in the world that I describe in various posts. The ultimate protection lies with the owner of his property.

You can't own what you can't control.

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston
  
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10-22-2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chefjeff View Post
You can't own what you can't control.

Jeff Livingston

You can't own what you aren't willing to give up freely.


My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.(Hosea 4:6)
  
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10-22-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BazookaJoe View Post
You can't own what you aren't willing to give up freely.
I'm not sure what you mean, Joe.

ARe you saying that one has to be willing to lose it all in order to own anything?...or what?

Jeff Livingston
  
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10-22-2009, 06:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chefjeff View Post
I'm not sure what you mean, Joe.

ARe you saying that one has to be willing to lose it all in order to own anything?...or what?

Jeff Livingston

If the retention of some object consumes you to the point then you've turned the control of the situation over to the object rather than yourself.
The object, or the posession of that object, becomes the controlling factor in all decisions related to it.

I can honestly say I do not have a posession I am willing to kill for.

I will, of course, not go to the extreme of say.....leaving my keys in the car all the time or never locking my doors, because losing things is certainly a nuissance.

I don't necessarily consider myself a pacifist for this, as I also will not be laid a hand on, nor will I refuse to act when wrong is done to someone else.

That's the idea
I think it works in my head much better than I can explain it in written word.


My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.(Hosea 4:6)
  
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10-22-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BazookaJoe View Post
If the retention of some object consumes you to the point then you've turned the control of the situation over to the object rather than yourself.
The object, or the posession of that object, becomes the controlling factor in all decisions related to it.

I can honestly say I do not have a posession I am willing to kill for.

I will, of course, not go to the extreme of say.....leaving my keys in the car all the time or never locking my doors, because losing things is certainly a nuissance.

I don't necessarily consider myself a pacifist for this, as I also will not be laid a hand on, nor will I refuse to act when wrong is done to someone else.

That's the idea
I think it works in my head much better than I can explain it in written word.
I agree completely.

I also say the same concept backwards: You can't control what you can't own. Either way, it implies that with ownership comes responsiblity. Having too many toys means, as you say, that the toys own you more than you own them. That's why the recent arguments about some companies being "too big to fail" is in reality, "too big to succeed." That is one of the natural, limiting principles of the anarchial universe.

Jeff Livingston
  
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Add Citi to the boycott list
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  (#57)
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Thumbs down Add Citi to the boycott list - 10-22-2009, 07:59 PM

Let's put these creeps out of business. Jim

CITI's New APR = 30%, They're Toast

Submitted by Bruce Krasting on 10/22/2009 18:49 -0500

I got a nasty letter from Citi Bank recently. They are raising the APR on my credit card to 29.99%.

Link to article & letter: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/cit...0-theyre-toast

This is a losing strategy for Citi. Larry Small, the former Citi CEO built the bank into a powerhouse by leveraging global consumers. Now they are stabbing those clients in the back.

I have been doing business with C for thirty years. I have borrowed from them and paid them back a number of times. I donít owe them a penny and I will be closing those accounts. I donít want to do business with people who try to put muscle on me. The end result will be that the only consumers who will do business with C are those who have no intention to pay back those loans in the first place. Talk about a bad bank.

The NYS usury law sets the top rate at 16%. I am sure that Citiís legal guys have found an angle around this. No doubt the rules are more favorable in S. Dakota where this letter originates. I live in NY and last I saw Citi had its headquarters here. This appears to violate the spirit of the NY statute. Possibly AG Cuomo will have an answer. I will ask him.

Citi is owned by the taxpayers as a result of TARP. It is receiving billions in additional subsidies monthly in the form of zero interest rates from the Federal Reserve. One would have thought that they might have gotten the message by now that abusive lending was Ďold schoolí.
  
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10-23-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
Let's put these creeps out of business. Jim

CITI's New APR = 30%, They're Toast

Submitted by Bruce Krasting on 10/22/2009 18:49 -0500

I got a nasty letter from Citi Bank recently. They are raising the APR on my credit card to 29.99%.

Link to article & letter: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/cit...0-theyre-toast

This is a losing strategy for Citi. Larry Small, the former Citi CEO built the bank into a powerhouse by leveraging global consumers. Now they are stabbing those clients in the back.

I have been doing business with C for thirty years. I have borrowed from them and paid them back a number of times. I donít owe them a penny and I will be closing those accounts. I donít want to do business with people who try to put muscle on me. The end result will be that the only consumers who will do business with C are those who have no intention to pay back those loans in the first place. Talk about a bad bank.

The NYS usury law sets the top rate at 16%. I am sure that Citiís legal guys have found an angle around this. No doubt the rules are more favorable in S. Dakota where this letter originates. I live in NY and last I saw Citi had its headquarters here. This appears to violate the spirit of the NY statute. Possibly AG Cuomo will have an answer. I will ask him.

Citi is owned by the taxpayers as a result of TARP. It is receiving billions in additional subsidies monthly in the form of zero interest rates from the Federal Reserve. One would have thought that they might have gotten the message by now that abusive lending was Ďold schoolí.
Usary "laws" don't work any better than any other price-control laws, for the exact same reasons.

Those "laws" won't save anyone!

fyi,

Jeff Livingston
  
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10-23-2009, 08:08 AM

Here's another example of why this kind of thing happens.

Find a recent HS grad and ask them how much money it would cost to carry a $3,000.00 balance on a CC at 30% APR for 8 months?

We have a massive section of the population who have no clue how to relate those numbers to reality.

LWW


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10-23-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chefjeff View Post
Usary "laws" don't work any better than any other price-control laws, for the exact same reasons.

Those "laws" won't save anyone!

fyi,

Jeff Livingston
Of course usury laws work.

Usury laws simply limit the interest rates that can be charged to consumers which, in turn, forces lenders into requiring higher credit standards for borrowers in order to reduce their own risk exposure.

Lowered default risk would normally dictate a reduction in interest rates because the excess risk that is removed no longer needs to be spread among ALL borrowers in the form of higher interest rates. The result is that only creditworthy borrowers get loans...as it should be.

I prefer speed limits also.

Jim
  
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