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09-19-2019, 02:30 PM

Be honest, how many BIH would you need from SVB to play him in a race to 20 for $10K ?


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09-19-2019, 02:40 PM

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Be honest, how many BIH would you need from SVB to play him in a race to 20 for $10K ?
It is an interesting question though. What % of the time does he B N R?

Being honest, I would feel good with 4 per game.
  
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09-19-2019, 06:36 PM

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Should I buy a cuetec or Valhalla?
Definitely the Valhalla! I recommend the 37' with trip 350 Merc's.

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09-19-2019, 07:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Be honest, how many BIH would you need from SVB to play him in a race to 20 for $10K ?
I've always wondered if I could hang, if I got BIH after any miss by top pro.

And on that topic: I am still interviewing backers. Please form line to the left.
  
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09-20-2019, 06:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
I've always wondered if I could hang, if I got BIH after any miss by top pro.

And on that topic: I am still interviewing backers. Please form line to the left.
How about per game? I'm thinking you would take 1 bih from SVB per game in a race to 20. And love doing it. In a 9 ball game, that would be huge.


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09-20-2019, 06:31 AM

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
How about per game? I'm thinking you would take 1 bih from SVB per game in a race to 20. And love doing it. In a 9 ball game, that would be huge.
Not even sure that type of game play is possible.

When he is in the midst of running 3-6 racks in a row, when do I get my bih?
  
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09-20-2019, 07:13 AM

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Be honest, how many BIH would you need from SVB to play him in a race to 20 for $10K ?
8 and all the breaks. might break even then...
  
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09-20-2019, 08:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Not even sure that type of game play is possible.

When he is in the midst of running 3-6 racks in a row, when do I get my bih?
Oh, forgot to mention, it's NOT winner breaks lol


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09-20-2019, 08:40 AM

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRJ View Post
Oh, forgot to mention, it's NOT winner breaks lol
The fact he can not break and run is a big change.

Yeah, I guess 1 per game might be possible, perhaps favorable.

Still interviewing backers. Guess my phone must be off line. Please try pm.
  
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09-20-2019, 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
8 and all the breaks. might break even then...
You want the 8 with the breaks against SVB, with no bih? Um, I think you got action, anyone got SVB on speed dial lol


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09-20-2019, 09:53 PM

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Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
Two different issues here

(1). Is the multiple ball-in-hand thing a good idea?

For a company-party pool tournament that is unlucky enough to have a few pool players in the mix, maybe. As a core structural thing for a league?, no.

--games are useless for FargoRate
--game-specific strategy will dominate in time
--highly manipulable

(2). Advertising/promoting a league by some large singularity-like payout?

There are a few things going on right now involving pool players and money and enthusiastic supporters that make me feel like I need a shower. This is one of them.
I have no skin in this game. Even still, I will offer a different perspective: They have one year under their belt. Everyone was paid. Innovation and start-ups are hard.


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09-20-2019, 10:15 PM

I have Peter Margo as a friend on Facebook, and he has posted in support of UBL, and to be frank... Having a player like Pete Margo supporting it.... actually DOESN'T leave a good taste in my mouth. There is no way a player of Pete's ability is gonna be like, "Four ball-in-hands a game for 8 ball for beginners? What's not to like?"

And so... obvious he's supporting it because he's getting a cut.

Which means it's not about growing pool. It's about getting a cut. Same as TSPN.
  
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09-21-2019, 12:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Z-Nole View Post
So the higher your ranking number the more you suck? How will they handle players sand bagging or getting better as the season goes along? Oh wait, scratch that. Donít bother answering, I donít really give a shit.


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09-21-2019, 05:48 AM

Imagine playing golf against Tiger Woods where your handicap is that you get to pick up and throw your ball with no penalty once or twice per hole.

Now imagine this from Tiger's point of view.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to play either. No self-respecting professional would demean themselves like that.
  
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09-25-2019, 08:39 AM

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Originally Posted by UBL.NYC View Post
I was hoping to get some constructive feedback and thoughts on the Ball-in-Hand handicap system introduced in the United Billiard League. I was asked by Peter Margo to build divisions and leagues for the UBL in the New York Metro area. I'm receiving great response from lower ranked players ( 2's, 3's and 4's and D's and C's) and really hard, and sometimes harsh, push back from higher ranked players. And oddly enough, no complaints at all from local pros.
Considering that the United Billiard League is paying out over $37,000 per session and over $250,000 in the finals as prize money, I am a little confused by some reactions that I've received.

I have my own thoughts, but I wanted to hear from the many sound voices here.

Thanks
Gerard
I first posted this in a different forum in August but am reposting here since this thread seems to be getting more action. This post has a couple of minor updates from the original. Southern Fried

OK, I read all the UBL posts on this forum and I'm going to do something I seldom do. Post on AZBilliards. Not that I have anything against the site. I just research more than I post. I post about once a year as I recall. Feel free to respond or comment whether you agree or not. Just don't look for a timely reply. I'm lucky to be on here more than once a month or so.

Full disclosure on the author. I played the game a lot prior to the advent of leagues from about 1959 -1964 and 1967-1970. Then a 29 year break to take care of some minor issues; earning a living, and raising a family. Started back in the game when I retired in 2009 and I've been playing APA 8-Ball since then. I like it. I have a reasonable game (APA 8-Ball SL5) but make no pretense of being ready to play with the "big boys." Might make it to Vegas, might not. Still a cheap night out once a week either way.

Now to the United Billiard Leagues.
1. Like all leagues in all sports, "there is no one size fits all." Especially where handicapping is in place. Some people will like the format, some won't. No handicapping system is completely "sandbagger free." There will always be those who try to manipulate the system. Especially where money is concerned. All any system can do is make an effort to lessen the chances of the cheaters being successful. My guess is that the system will be tweaked as the league matures.

2. If you haven't tried it, either in the UBL league or by subjectively handicapping your playing buddies and trying out the format, you're still entitled to an opinion but not to knock those that want to find out for themselves if they like the format. You can find the rules at www.unitedbilliardleagues.com.

3. The handicapping via ball-in-hand may surprise you. I joined a team in a new (to UBL) venue. To begin with some of the better 8-ball players (APA 6 and 7s) were having fits trying to beat APA 3, 4 and 5s when both they and the lower players each had 3 BIH before enough weeks were played for handicaps to adjust to real skill levels. Probably because they didn't take the lower level players seriously and suddenly found they missed when their opponent had three BIH left and only three balls plus the eight left on the table. All matches are a race to 4 so you better pay attention. Otherwise you might find you're one miss away from a loss to someone you didn't take seriously.

4. The weekly fee is reasonable and even if you never make a dollar in playoff money, you still had a night out for a few bucks and got to play pool to boot. Oh, look, that's the same as the APA league. I don't play BCA or any other leagues so I can't make a judgment there since I don't know how they work payouts (if any).

5. There's a lot of talk in this forum and elsewhere about weaker players never improving in this format. And, that's true if the elitist abandon them to struggle on their own. Oh, look, that's also true in other league formats. Remember, as they improve in skill they will get fewer BIH per rack.

6. Stronger players should always be doing all they can to help weaker team members become better. Here's a simple rule, the better a player is the more fun he/she has and the more likely they'll continue with the game.

7. I saw some talk about pool rooms only wanting to make money. No kidding. Why put up with all us folks of the pool player mentality otherwise. The more money they make, the more likely they will stay in the business, the more rooms that stay in business, the more places we have to enjoy the game. I don't see a down side there. The UBL division I'm in has attracted some players that didn't play in other leagues. So, new players mean more money to the venue...

8. Slow play in the UBL finals. No argument there but you did have rank amateurs playing for $100,000 first prize. And, if you watch some pro tournaments, for a lot less money, and not using a shot clock, on YouTube the play is much slower for some players than I saw on the UBL final (and I watched every minute of it).

9. Bottom Line. I like the UBL format. I hope it succeeds and remains as an option for us. Give it a one season try and then make up your mind based on experience, not unsupported opinion. I still play on my APA team and added a night of play for the UBL. So far I like it and I'll definitely finish out the season before making a final decision either way.

10. Additional comments now that I've completed a few week's UBL play: A) I'm known for using safety play. This league will make you rethink how you play a rack. More than once I habitually played a lockup safety only to realize my opponent had a BIH left and used it to get out of trouble and go on to win the rack. B) unlike the playoffs on YouTube, the matches go quickly since the BIH greatly reduces the time for each rack. My APA league usually winds up around 11:00 - 11:30 PM, the UBL league around 10:00 - 10:30 PM. Both leagues start at 7:00 PM. Same venue and same tables.

Cheers y'all, Southern Fried.
  
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