Stroke Question - Upper arm

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Here is the video you asked for https://youtu.be/GNJqnoqdPms It is a collection of excerpts from the video I sent to Tor Lowry for my Patreon program.

I apologize for the quality. I have never used the camera on my phone.

I learned a lot from watching the video itself.
1. I need to lose 50 lbs
2. I should record and watch myself more often
3. I come up out of way too many shots. I don't mind the break but not the others.
4. The cue tip does not end up on the cloth as often as it should.

Now you guys and gals can tear it apart from there.

I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.
 
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skipbales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.

Thanks Island Drive. Merry Christmas to you too.

Balance and stability solid clearance on long stroke is my issue. Stick bumps my chest on the back swing. I think I have it figured out see my post to Fran and let me know what you think.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Thanks Island Drive. Merry Christmas to you too.

Balance and stability solid clearance on long stroke is my issue. Stick bumps my chest on the back swing. I think I have it figured out see my post to Fran and let me know what you think.

One thing at a time....maybe two. To make changes, it takes allot of work/time to incorporate, till you stop thinking about it....and it becomes second nature.
 
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EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.

How much pressure would you say should be on your bridge hand?
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.

I'm not an instructor
I am an amateur
but I admit I noticed this as well
and I know what it looks like to be unbalanced
because I've been there, and still find myself there once in awhile
I don't think it can be disputed that (when we're standing on the ground)
our body posture begins with our feet
I think footwork in pool is underrated really
finding a comfortable, stable foundation can't hurt
I find that having a strong core helps me be stable
especially in awkward positions
anyway you don't look like you're in bad shape
that you seek to improve is vital
and I bet if you keep working on it, thinking about it, and practicing
you will improve!

good luck and happy holidays
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Fran Merry Christmas!! I see your point and believe I was on a wrong track worrying about upper arm position all together. Here is what I discovered please tell me what you think.

I re-watched some stance videos, in particular one of Tor Lowry's. Here is what I learned and changed.

Before I started with the center of my body on the shot line. I think it should have been my stick, at my side, on the line. This moves me left some. (right handed).

Before I put the ball of my foot on the shot line, now I put my toes on the line.

Before my right foot was 30-45 degrees to the shot line. Now it is closer to 90.

Before I stepped forward and to the left with my left foot, more left than forward. Now I step more forward and only a little left with it. I noticed Tor's feet were closer together than mine.

Before my left foot was parallel to the shot line, it still is.

These changes just turn me a small amount but it is enough to give me clearance. It also feels like I am "sticking my butt out" when I drop into the shot. I don't lead the move with my butt but it does have more of that affect.

I end up with my body more left of the cue than over it. This gives me clearance and with my head turned to look straight down the cue it feels pretty good, not strained. My cue is away from my body and I kind of miss that security of having my body to help guide my stroke but that may be like training wheels on a bicycle. Not sure.

Sounds great. Time will tell if it helps you make the shots you've been missing.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
How much pressure would you say should be on your bridge hand?

Pressure, just the normal weight of those body parts. Basically no pressure. If there is forward pressure on your hand then your applying forward weight to your stance, thus putting your whole body Slightly off balance.

I'm very critical about this because I'm real tall. 6'6''.

When I'm slightly off it's waaaaaaaaaay worse that a person who's allot shorter than me.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
To be clear, how are you measuring 4 diamonds?

for Draw two diamonds to the cue ball and two diamonds back would be a 4 diamond draw as the draw wears off due to drag on the way to the object ball. A one diamond form the object ball and 3 back would also be 4 diamonds.

For follow it gets easier with a little distance as the drag helps you just like it hurts you in draw.

So two diamonds to the object ball and two more to the hole is a little easier than one to the object ball and 3 more to the hole.

I will set some up and see how I do. I have done these before but not for a long time.
Try this https://youtu.be/D3oj9lte_5o?t=327
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pressure, just the normal weight of those body parts. Basically no pressure. If there is forward pressure on your hand then your applying forward weight to your stance, thus putting your whole body Slightly off balance.

I'm very critical about this because I'm real tall. 6'6''.

When I'm slightly off it's waaaaaaaaaay worse that a person who's allot shorter than me.

I thought because of my height, (6'3") that i may need to lean a little more forward on my bridge hand.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I thought because of my height, (6'3") that i may need to lean a little more forward on my bridge hand.

No, that would be like being in a Karate stance, and because your taller, your balance points (3) would be different. nope
 

skipbales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

Thanks Joey!! I have that video and do that drill from time to time. Bert Kinister has a more extreme drill where he starts the cue ball from the corner pocket, maybe 2" from the pocket, goes to the opposite corner one diamond from the pocket and draws all the way back to a scratch. Crazy hard. It is funny to me that they both seem to marvel that the draw shot is harder. :eek: You have to hit much harder and the cue ball travels much farther. That is why I asked you about a "four diamond draw shot". It all depends on how you count.

In the Dr. Dave video for the follow the cue ball goes 2 diamonds forward to contact then 2 more to the pocket. All this with the table encouraging roll. In the draw shot the cue ball goes 2 diamonds forward to contact then has to come back 4 diamonds to get to the opposite pocket. All this while the friction with the cloth works to take the back spin off the cue ball forcing the shooter to hit very low and pretty hard.

That said I will shoot a few and see how I do. I can do 5 in a row forward and after a few get that up to 10. At least I could the last time I did it. The draw, of course, is much harder. Dr. Dave says 1 out of 5 is good. I don't remember if I did that one or how it went. I do a 4 diamond side to side draw and can do that pretty consistently. That one is 2 to the object ball then 2 back to scratch. Drawing back 4 diamonds into a 5" space isn't just a little harder than back 2. It is a LOT harder. We will see.

Is this a drill you practice? If so how do you fare at it? Thanks for the TIP.
 
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Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
So should i bend both knees?

What ever feels comfortable when your down on your shot....

Some lock both, some lock one and bend the other, some bend both.

Go to a pro event and look at the plethora of stances.

Rempe years ago/late sixties/his stance looked awkward to me, when I first saw him play at Johnston City.

When he was ''down and done''....He could thin a ball with the best of em.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shows what you (don't) know. The pendulum stroke is far superior to the piston stroke...it's not even close...but you go ahead and tout all those famous players from the time before great, accurate pool instruction became available. Also those great players had no inkling about pool physics...they were great players in spite of missing that knowledge. The majority of amateur players today benefit GREATLY from this information.

To Skip...Doesn't matter if the upper arm is parallel to the table or not.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

"Elbow Drop" is just a big humbug from instrictors.
Jimmy Caras, Willie Mosconi, Eddie Talyor, Steve Mizerak, all dropped their elbows most of the time to get a good follow through.
Don't worry about it. Just shoot the balls in the holes.
 

skipbales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shows what you (don't) know. The pendulum stroke is far superior to the piston stroke...it's not even close...but you go ahead and tout all those famous players from the time before great, accurate pool instruction became available. Also those great players had no inkling about pool physics...they were great players in spite of missing that knowledge. The majority of amateur players today benefit GREATLY from this information.

To Skip...Doesn't matter if the upper arm is parallel to the table or not.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Thanks Scott. I think my stance was the issue. My back foot was on the shot line but it was the center of my foot. Using the toe gives me the clearance I need. Sometimes you start with a thought and the discussion helps you find the answer and it may not have anything to do with the original question.
Thanks to you and all who participate.
Skip
 
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