Sneaky Pete question

Hinekanman

Hinekanman

AzB Silver Member
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Im not sure if this is even possible or can be accomplished a different way. Can a sneaky be made with one piece of maple after the points. The purpose is to have all the wood be the same and for the grain to match. I was thinking of asking a cuemaker to do it but wanted to make sure it was possible first before wasting someones time.
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just to clarify - do you mean like cutting a house cue in 1/2, putting a screw in it, and then facing off each side to time the joint so it closes tight when the original grain lines up?

Or did i completely misunderstand the question?

smt
 
Hinekanman

Hinekanman

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So what I mean is two separate pieces of wood. Lets say a ebony piece and a piece of maple. A long piece. Spliced together to make a sneaky. Not a house cue. Sorry bout that
 
MVPCues

MVPCues

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The only challenges are logistical. Can someone who makes FS sneaky blanks have a 48" "forearm" hang off their machinery when cutting the grooves. Does the same cuemaker have a lathe with 60" between centers to turn down a full length cue.

The 60" between centers for cuemaking pretty much eliminates 99% of custom builders.
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So what I mean is two separate pieces of wood. Lets say a ebony piece and a piece of maple. A long piece. Spliced together to make a sneaky. Not a house cue. Sorry bout that
Bear with me, been told i'm slow. :)

What i meant was, as an example of the "technical factors"?

Reading Kelly's post, maybe i see another way to say it:

Do you mean making a full splice, full length custom cue, then cutting it in (aprox) 1/2?

Then timing the joint so the grain lines up?

I don't think you could cut the maple first, make the shaft and the butt, & expect to have the grain line up later.

However if you made a full size FS cue in one piece (like a house cue but custom) then it could be cut and timed. What i would do, you might or might not find this acceptable: make the bolt 3/8-24 (standard fine thread) on the end that screws into the butt; and it would be a tight fit. There would be a short straight section with flats for a 5/16" wrench. (Alternately: broach a hex in the visible end, for an allen key.) The working end would be a regular 3/8"-10 flat face.

Now you can time the grain to line up by slightly tighening or loosening the differential screw in the butt. And if (when) the cue faces wear or take a set, or if you have to face it again, it will be easy to re-time for alignment. I'd consider saturating each face with very thin super glue before taking the final facing cut.

It will still never be invisible, but maybe close.

Another factor is that without a ferule, the shaft can be weak and crack at the joint if you break with it. Maybe put a phenolic insert inside?

smt
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Click to expand...
 
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RickLafayette

RickLafayette

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I think the OP is asking if a cue maker can make a "house cue" with his choice of woods. If that could be done, making it a 2 piece would be the easy part.
 
deraltefritz

deraltefritz

AzB Silver Member
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From what I've gathered, it is difficult to make butts or shafts *much* larger than 30".

You could consider getting a cue from a snooker cue maker. Their default cues are one piece, but they offer to split it in half with grain aligning.

Most will build the cue to your specifications (tip diameter, butt diameter, weight etc.). The only non-standard thing would be the taper, because snooker cues are traditionally conical. But I'm sure that this is not a technical problem.
 
Snooker Theory

Snooker Theory

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MVPCues said:
The only challenges are logistical. Can someone who makes FS sneaky blanks have a 48" "forearm" hang off their machinery when cutting the grooves. Does the same cuemaker have a lathe with 60" between centers to turn down a full length cue.

The 60" between centers for cuemaking pretty much eliminates 99% of custom builders.
Click to expand...

Do you know of any cuemakers that can do a one piece cue?
I saw someone ask on here a few months ago, but they never got an answer.
 
MVPCues

MVPCues

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Snooker Theory said:
Do you know of any cuemakers that can do a one piece cue?
I saw someone ask on here a few months ago, but they never got an answer.
Click to expand...

Any cuemaker with a lathe with a large enough spindle bore that is set up for both tapering butts and shafts on the lathe can taper one portion with half the cue in the headstock and hanging out the back, then reverse it and taper the other end and meet in the middle. So a lot of guys could do it if their life depended on it. But I know nobody who is actually setup to make one piece cues.

After more thought about the original question I wonder if the OP is asking this:

Can a 48" piece of solid maple be cut at 30", the 18" piece of maple be spliced to an ebony butt, and the 30" length be made into a shaft (the cut end is the joint end) for a normal 2 piece cue? Then when the joint is installed, can the maple grain be lined up when the two are screwed together tightly?

If that is what the OP was asking, then yes, that is no big deal. The grain line up when this type of thing is done is typically not absolutely perfect due to kerf when cut and facing, and inconsistent tightening of the joint/loosening of the threads over time.
 
Hinekanman

Hinekanman

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Silver Member
"After more thought about the original question I wonder if the OP is asking this:

Can a 48" piece of solid maple be cut at 30", the 18" piece of maple be spliced to an ebony butt, and the 30" length be made into a shaft (the cut end is the joint end) for a normal 2 piece cue? Then when the joint is installed, can the maple grain be lined up when the two are screwed together tightly?

If that is what the OP was asking, then yes, that is no big deal. The grain line up when this type of thing is done is typically not absolutely perfect due to kerf when cut and facing, and inconsistent tightening of the joint/loosening of the threads over time.[/QUOTE]"




Thats exactly what im saying. If that's what would happen. Sounds doable when you say it that way
 
S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can a 48" piece of solid maple be cut at 30", the 18" piece of maple be spliced to an ebony butt, and the 30" length be made into a shaft (the cut end is the joint end) for a normal 2 piece cue? Then when the joint is installed, can the maple grain be lined up when the two are screwed together tightly?
Click to expand...

If you want full splice, (as indicated by Sneaky Pete spec) it would be one of the lower odds in a crapshoot.
I make the parts with centers, work to center, and glue up as centered as possible. Including small buttons on the ends that fit the drilled centers in the clamp, to keep the forces centered.

Nonetheless, when starting to turn, it is necessary to put a 4 jaw chuck on both ends, and dial the points in at both ends of the points; then recut the centers for profiling in the same set up. At that point (no pun intended) it is unlikely the ends are still in line. So if you made a shaft separately, with the same centers from the same blank, pretty much only luck would result in the grain lining up in the 2 separate pieces.

Or you could get the grain to line up, but the points would not.

OTOH, if made in one piece & then cut, it can be done pretty closely.
 
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HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
MVPCues said:
The only challenges are logistical. Can someone who makes FS sneaky blanks have a 48" "forearm" hang off their machinery when cutting the grooves. Does the same cuemaker have a lathe with 60" between centers to turn down a full length cue.

The 60" between centers for cuemaking pretty much eliminates 99% of custom builders.
Click to expand...

Couldn't a maker buy a maple "blank" the same length as what the shaft and points together would be and then cut it down to size (piece for making the forearm and the piece to be used for the shaft) before trying to turn in in the lathe?

Then the shaft and the forearm would be from the same piece of wood.
 
MVPCues

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ssonerai said:
If you want full splice, (as indicated by Sneaky Pete spec) it would be one of the lower odds in a crapshoot.
I make the parts with centers, work to center, and glue up as centered as possible. Including small buttons on the ends that fit the drilled centers in the clamp, to keep the forces centered.

Nonetheless, when starting to turn, it is necessary to put a 4 jaw chuck on both ends, and dial the points in at both ends of the points; then recut the centers for profiling in the same set up. At that point (no pun intended) it is unlikely the ends are still in line. So if you made a shaft separately, with the same centers from the same blank, pretty much only luck would result in the grain lining up in the 2 separate pieces.

Or you could get the grain to line up, but the points would not.

OTOH, if made in one piece & then cut, it can be done pretty closely.
Click to expand...

I think I am going to have to fall on the opposite side of the skeptical fence. The last veneered FS blank I delivered to Dzuricky, I did zero bumping after the initial turning. Bob made the video before he took any additional cuts. Bob said he shimmed the joint center only .008" to dial the points in perfect. <edit...Bob told me exactly what he did>

Even if one has to bump the joint end a lot, whatever you end up bumping the joint end after turning, bump the shaft joint the same amount in the same direction via some witness marks.
 
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S

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think I am going to have to fall on the opposite side of the skeptical fence. The last veneered FS blank I delivered to Dzuricky, I did zero bumping after the initial turning. Bob made the video before he took any additional cuts. Bob said he shimmed the joint center only .008" to dial the points in perfect. <edit...Bob told me exactly what he did>
Click to expand...

Well it's a good message to receive, Kelly: I need to "keep practicing" :)

Even if one has to bump the joint end a lot, whatever you end up bumping the joint end after turning, bump the shaft joint the same amount in the same direction via some witness marks.
Click to expand...

That's why i use a 4j on each end.
the distance between points on the butt end has to be equal, and the height of the points at the joint end have to be equal.

There is a bronze bushing in a collet in the headstock, behind the 4j chuck. When things are dialed in, i drill through it with a long 1/2 side center drill. The other end, i turn to a diameter, for indicating & drilling through the headstock, or grabbing with a collet. From here, it goes to the planer for profiling, though i still do not have a dedicated profile. More a set of tapers, and then blend them back on the lathe with abrasives. I do have a profile for shafts but have not made any recently.

Thanks!
smt
 

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