Mark vs Mike

Joe Pickens said:

Could someone explain the difference to me between what Mark Griffin is trying to do and what Mike Janis is planning? Mike has been planning a pro tour and has been talking about it for a while now, but yet when Mark has what to me looks like the same idea it makes front page news at AZBilliards.

Mike made the offer about health insurance for the players and Mark says that in the coming years the players could have health insurance. Again, isn't this the same thing Mike is promoting?

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I think Mike made front page news too at one point about his idea... am I wrong? I think it's just whatever the "new" thing is will get the attention that day.

The article on today's front page doesn't give any details about the actual tour and what the plan is... it just says it is coming and that he presented it to some players in Vegas... what makes you think it looks the same as what Mike is planning?

In My opinion... Mike J is trying to get the industry/pool room owners and pro players to invest in Mike's idea.

Mark G is going to finance his own idea and will accept the industry's help if they want to contribute. .

Joe Pickens said:

Could someone explain the difference to me between what Mark Griffin is trying to do and what Mike Janis is planning? Mike has been planning a pro tour and has been talking about it for a while now, but yet when Mark has what to me looks like the same idea it makes front page news at AZBilliards.

Mike made the offer about health insurance for the players and Mark says that in the coming years the players could have health insurance. Again, isn't this the same thing Mike is promoting?

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The question is this - does it matter who makes this a reality?

I came up with a lot of original ideas (years ago) and I could care less who has used them as long as something gets done.

This has to be more about the game of pool than it has to do with who gets credit for starting it. Everybody needs to get on the same page of music and start cooperating instead of claiming rights to who came up with the ideas.

In the past several months I have openly shared many ideas with many influential people within the world of pool in hopes that those ideas reach the ears of those that can do more with it than I can at this point in time.

I fully support Mark Griffin because I believe he has the respect and the experience to captain this ship through the current storm we are in. This is not saying that Mike isn't capable - Mike is an invaluable asset to the game of pool. Someday I hope all of us can be working towards the same goals.

Today, more than anything else, our professional game needs leadership. The BCA has not provided that leadership. Without that leadership, we'll get nowhere. I understand what Mike is trying to do within the BCA system, but I think they will keep pointing Mike's ideas in the direction of dead ends and roadblocks.

Whatever happens, this is an exciting time in the game of pool.

Tom In Cincy said:

In My opinion... Mike J is trying to get the industry/pool room owners and pro players to invest in Mike's idea.

Mark G is going to finance his own idea and will accept the industry's help if they want to contribute. .

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Tom, I would modify your view to this extent. Unless MG is fabulously wealthy AND doesn't care about making a profit on his ventures, then he will either get substantial industry support, his tour will have very modest economics or won't go forward at all.

Regards,
Jim

av84fun said:

Tom, I would modify your view to this extent. Unless MG is fabulously wealthy AND doesn't care about making a profit on his ventures, then he will either get substantial industry support, his tour will have very modest economics or won't go forward at all.

Regards,
Jim

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The idea that Mark is totally funding this on his own dime is incorrect. I am sure that he will have to spend his own money to get things started but, ultimately, his tour will not be funded out of his own pocket if successful.

A few weeks ago Mike J. said someone was going to do this but would not say who. I think if you put 2+2 together now we know who it was?

Jimmy M. said:

The idea that Mark is totally funding this on his own dime is incorrect. I am sure that he will have to spend his own money to get things started but, ultimately, his tour will not be funded out of his own pocket if successful.

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I think you are probably right here. Nobody wants to work all his life and then invest in a losing proposition. It doesn't make sense at all.

I hope Mark can create a way for it to work for everyone and that it builds into the dream the game has always needed.

I think for most to speculate on how it is funded, will operate and so forth is a bit premature right now.

Jimmy M. said:

The idea that Mark is totally funding this on his own dime is incorrect. I am sure that he will have to spend his own money to get things started but, ultimately, his tour will not be funded out of his own pocket if successful.

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Right Jimmy. That was my point.

Regards,
Jim

Let's see.....

av84fun said:

Tom, I would modify your view to this extent. Unless MG is fabulously wealthy AND doesn't care about making a profit on his ventures, then he will either get substantial industry support, his tour will have very modest economics or won't go forward at all.

Regards,
Jim

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If you take 60,000 members of a league and take 3-4$ of dues, giving them an incentive by having an agreement with the pros to donate some time to giving exhibitions etc..., then you start off with 180,000-200,000 of monies to have tournaments for the professional league. That alone is a lot more than is currently out there and that's with absolutely NO sponsorship whatsoever outside of the league.

Now, what you've also done is raised interest and awareness by those said 60,000 peoples in the pro events and pro players. "THAT IS WHAT WE NEED!"

I've been saying this for awhile, league players don't care about pro pool. If they did then they would watch it on TV and corporate sponsorship would be easier to obtain. There are a lot of league players and ballbangers out there. If we could harness their interests so that they enjoy following pool as much as most of those here on the forum do, then that would go a long way to bringing a viable pro tour to fruition.

No one in the world has the ability to gain the bangers interests in the world of pro pool like the league owners and operators do. If you can get even a small percentage of league players to get interested in pro pool and the players, then word of mouth could give it the jolt that it has needed to bring it to the next level. Besides, there doesn't seem a way that professional pool could possibly get into worse trouble than it is today.

I absolutely think that Mark has the acumen to bring this off, and "Mark, I would even be interested in going to work there full time to help bring it off if you need the help." P.M. me if you're interested and capable.

Jaden.

gwk9ball said:

A few weeks ago Mike J. said someone was going to do this but would not say who. I think if you put 2+2 together now we know who it was?

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--Edit--

See the 2nd page for a corrected response.

Jaden said:

...I've been saying this for awhile, league players don't care about pro pool. If they did then they would watch it on TV and corporate sponsorship would be easier to obtain. There are a lot of league players and ballbangers out there. If we could harness their interests so that they enjoy following pool as much as most of those here on the forum do, then that would go a long way to bringing a viable pro tour to fruition.

No one in the world has the ability to gain the bangers interests in the world of pro pool like the league owners and operators do. If you can get even a small percentage of league players to get interested in pro pool and the players, then word of mouth could give it the jolt that it has needed to bring it to the next level...

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Hi Jaden,

I don't think it always a matter of league players not caring. I recently joined forces with my local APA league to do some appearances to help increase awareness of professional billiards and the billiards industry in general. Now I wasn't surprised that most of them had no idea who I am...but what really struck me was how fast they "took to me" and how much they appreciated a professional coming out to interact with them. And then, at the first WPBA event, at least 30 of them came out to watch and support me and the tournament. 95% of them had never been to a WPBA event before...but it wasn't because they didn't care. It was because they had never been introduced to that world. But now that they are aware of the billiard world outside their local league....they are now watching ESPN, checking out pool websites and forums, and many of them will start trying to attend pro events.

Those same local APAers are helping to support my CA State Championship by purchasing raffle tickets for a custom cue that Ned Morris is donating. In less than one hour, they purchased $400 worth of tickets that I can add straight to the tournament purse. And many of them are planning to come watch...and some of them even entered the event.

I am only referring to one local league in my area (thank you very much South Coast APA). If other pros got involved with their local leagues....I think the awareness and support would grow in leaps and bounds.

Melissa

Melissa Herndon said:

Hi Jaden,

I don't think it always a matter of league players not caring. I recently joined forces with my local APA league to do some appearances to help increase awareness of professional billiards and the billiards industry in general. Now I wasn't surprised that most of them had no idea who I am...but what really struck me was how fast they "took to me" and how much they appreciated a professional coming out to interact with them. And then, at the first WPBA event, at least 30 of them came out to watch and support me and the tournament. 95% of them had never been to a WPBA event before...but it wasn't because they didn't care. It was because they had never been introduced to that world. But now that they are aware of the billiard world outside their local league....they are now watching ESPN, checking out pool websites and forums, and many of them will start trying to attend pro events.

Those same local APAers are helping to support my CA State Championship by purchasing raffle tickets for a custom cue that Ned Morris is donating. In less than one hour, they purchased $400 worth of tickets that I can add straight to the tournament purse. And many of them are planning to come watch...and some of them even entered the event.

I am only referring to one local league in my area (thank you very much South Coast APA). If other pros got involved with their local leagues....I think the awareness and support would grow in leaps and bounds.

Melissa

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That's great Melissa, good job. I too think if more pros did this sort of thing it would help pool bigtime. Keep up the good work. Johnnyt

Blackjack said:

The question is this - does it matter who makes this a reality?

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Uhhh yes it does.

Especially if it does become a reality and what that person does with it after wards.

gwk9ball said:

A few weeks ago Mike J. said someone was going to do this but would not say who. I think if you put 2+2 together now we know who it was?

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--Edited response from first page--

The first meeting Mr. Griffin held was 5/12 & Mr. Janis made his post on 5/13.

Keep in mind that Mr. Janis said the person he was talking about already had a tarnished reputation. Mr. Griffin does not. His many different endeavors in the pool world have never been questioned. When there wasn't enough entrants into the Qlympics to cover the prize fund, he didn't cut the posted payouts, he covered the difference out of his pocket to the tune of (I believe he said) $80,000. He also bailed out the players that were stiffed in AZ. These are not actions of a questionable, tarnished person in the pool world.

Mr. Janis also stated that the person he was talking about had abandoned their plan to pursue that endeavor. Mr. Griffin didn't back down, he held a 2nd meeting and he's now put out a press release. I think if he were the person Mr. Janis was talking about, Mr. Janis would once again become vocal about his displeasure.

I definately think it matters who comes up with the ideas. Having two people trying to start 2 separate tours is not a great idea. If one more combined attempt is made, then they would not have to fight each other for sponsorship, players, etc.

IF indeed it is Mark that Mike is talking about , it could be a very bad thing.
it would seem that there is already conflict between the 2 (not good for anyone) IF this is true.
Mark is trying to get somthing started (this is great for billiard fans and players)

Mike has been working for years doing all he can (and I belive by himself , traveling across the country by car to run these events) to promote the Viking Tour and the PLAYER"S . just like trying to get insurance for the members that do this for a living .
i would hate to see this conflict (IF INDEED THIS IS THE CASE) cause Mike to feel like he's been abanded by the players and give up any of his efforts for the billiard comunity. this indeed would be a big loss.

just and opinion from an outsider.

carl shealy

I don't know Mike Janis at all. I DO know Mark Griffin and know that he is a smart AND respectable business that loves pool and would do whatever he could to make it succeed. I think the future of US pool is going to be an interesting one, but at least it sounds like there will be a future.