FargoRate and Salotto

8cree

8cree

Reverse Engineer
Silver Member
Well... most of what yo asked is right in that link. I think what you are really wanting to ask is: Will the info be vetted or verified somehow before if becomes an actual statistic?
It says they their integrity is of concern though...lol

From the link c\p:
Here at FargoRate, helping you tell the story of your game is the best part of what we do. As always, the integrity of our rating system is our foremost concern. With that in mind, there are several requirements that each player must meet and a small fee for each submitted match. Also, all self-reported games are visible to all other players using the FargoRate app with the View Public Matches button in the new version of our Player app.
 
David in FL

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ask golfers what happened when online, self-posting of scores for handicaps became available...

Hell. You can figure it out yourself...
 
Chili Palmer

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
David in FL said:
Ask golfers what happened when online, self-posting of scores for handicaps became available...

Hell. You can figure it out yourself...
Click to expand...

Agreed. I don't care how much vetting is done - players should not be able to self-enter their own stats. Period.
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
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I agree there, does not sound like a very good idea. Trusting people to be honest with the match results and giving them the tools to mess with them is not smart. I stopped looking at "official" handicaps quite a while ago, seeing how the player performs and word of mouth is the best way. 80% of talk in pool halls is about who has what handicap rating and how to try to lower it or keep it the same as players get better. When you have the same people winning or placing high in handicapped events but their handicaps don't move, something is suspect. Recently I heard a player say he is a C player when he just played a solid A player to a hill hill even race and finished top 8 in a non-handicapped tournament with over 40 players most of which were B or A players.

They seem to think that a small fee will stop players from cheating when they can make several $100 by entering events as a low handicap.
 
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mikepage

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Chili Palmer said:
I was reading the article from the main page about FargoRate partnering with Salotto and it mentions you can enter your matches into FargoRate.

Are they saying any Tom, Dick, or Harry can enter a match into FargoRate or is there more to the story?

I would not be a fan of Fargo if anyone can enter a match.

EDIT: here's the link https://www.azbilliards.com/fargorate-announces-partnership-with-salotto/
Click to expand...

Yes, of course, more to the story. It's not like self-reporting in golf, and it's not like self-reporting for UTR in tennis. We of course have a very strong interest in data integrity. With that said, it's not a simple issue and requires some careful explanation. So stay tuned please.
 
TATE

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
A player has to pay to enter a Fargorate match. It's supposed to be for tournaments. Wonder how many will do it?
 
peppersauce

peppersauce

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mikepage said:
Amongst other requirements, you certainly may not decide AFTER a match is played whether it is recorded.
Click to expand...

I’m curious what the requirements are and what the fee will be. I’m trying to get an established rating, but almost nothing in my area reports to FargoRate. We recently got a BCA league up and running, but I’m only an alternate so I’m only going to get a handful of games in every month or so that way.

I was thinking though, I do gamble with players that have well established Fargo ratings (guys that travel a lot) and the matches are usually set up in advance and streamed. We play even races with no handicap. If the fee is reasonable, I’d be willing to input those matches as they come up just to get more games in the system. It will probably go a lot faster that way than just relying on a handful of league games every month or so. Plus, getting games in against well established players would lead to a more accurate established rating once I finally get 200 games in, I would think. Most of the folks in the league are new to FargoRate and are not established either.

Anyway, interesting idea. Need more info. :)
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mikepage said:
Amongst other requirements, you certainly may not decide AFTER a match is played whether it is recorded.
Click to expand...

I am super curious how this would work while still maintaining some sort of validation of the result not being faked. Even if you need both players to authenticate the score, it's not hard to find a buddy to fake scores with you.
 
TATE

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
peppersauce said:
I’m curious what the requirements are and what the fee will be. I’m trying to get an established rating, but almost nothing in my area reports to FargoRate. We recently got a BCA league up and running, but I’m only an alternate so I’m only going to get a handful of games in every month or so that way.

I was thinking though, I do gamble with players that have well established Fargo ratings (guys that travel a lot) and the matches are usually set up in advance and streamed. We play even races with no handicap. If the fee is reasonable, I’d be willing to input those matches as they come up just to get more games in the system. It will probably go a lot faster that way than just relying on a handful of league games every month or so. Plus, getting games in against well established players would lead to a more accurate established rating once I finally get 200 games in, I would think. Most of the folks in the league are new to FargoRate and are not established either.

Anyway, interesting idea. Need more info. :)
Click to expand...


I just looked at the app and it's $2.99 to enter 1 - 10 games, $3.99 for 11 - 15 games and $4.99 for 16 - 25 games. I'm not exactly clear what that means but it looks like the length of the race. That could get to be expensive.
 
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Chili Palmer

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mikepage said:
Yes, of course, more to the story. It's not like self-reporting in golf, and it's not like self-reporting for UTR in tennis. We of course have a very strong interest in data integrity. With that said, it's not a simple issue and requires some careful explanation. So stay tuned please.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Mike. I look forward to more details.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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hang-the-9 said:
I am super curious how this would work while still maintaining some sort of validation of the result not being faked. Even if you need both players to authenticate the score, it's not hard to find a buddy to fake scores with you.
Click to expand...
You will need to find a buddy who is willing to have his FR go up. Also, if your buddy has beaten you 100-5 in private matches and the matches of the two of you against other players indicate you are actually close to even, I can imagine a big red flag going up by the Red River.
 
TATE

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
You will need to find a buddy who is willing to have his FR go up. Also, if your buddy has beaten you 100-5 in private matches and the matches of the two of you against other players indicate you are actually close to even, I can imagine a big red flag going up by the Red River.
Click to expand...

Generally, what is the disadvantage of a Fargorate increase?
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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TATE said:
Generally, what is the disadvantage of a Fargorate increase?
Click to expand...
It is only important for handicapped or classified-by-ranking situations.

In some tournaments, those over a certain rating have to play in a stronger group. In some leagues, handicaps in individual matches are determined by rating.

The other side of the question is what is the advantage in being rated lower. You may get to play below your true group or you may get a better spot in handicapped matches or someone who doesn't know what you've been up to might match up with you badly in an action match.
 
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David in FL

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
It is only important for handicapped or classified-by-ranking situations.

In some tournaments, those over a certain rating have to play in a stronger group. In some leagues, handicaps in individual matches are determined by rating.

The other side of the question is what is the advantage in being rated lower. You may get to play below your true group or you may get a better spot in handicapped matches or someone who doesn't know what you've been up to might match up with you badly in an action match.
Click to expand...

Yep

There are also tournaments that are closed to people over a certain ranking. As an example, If someone who plays at, say a 650 speed, is able to somehow maintain a FargoRate that allows them to play in “under 600” tournaments they are going to obviously have a tremendous advantage over the majority of the field…
 
Chili Palmer

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As mentioned, some tournaments have caps, there was a local tournament to me that had a 550 cap.

Here's how it has affected me personally.

When I got back into pool a little over 2 years ago I practiced frequently and played a lot of pool ultimately I ended up just over 600 (currently sitting at 612 with a robustness of 236). However, over the last year my playing, and definitely my practicing, has gone WAY down and so I no longer play at that level (I would guess I currently play at 560-575?) on a regular basis. I also no longer play in BCA so my Fargo is currently stuck where it's at. Went to a regional tournament last month and they had an A/B division and an Open division and I was placed in the Open due to my Fargo. I played well but I was most definitely in the bottom tier and my results showed it (I went 2 for 4).

Another example are chip tournaments. Given my rating we don't get too many chips while players of similar skill level get more chips because their Fargo is lower than mine.

This is partly my fault for not playing BCA anymore but it should give a couple of examples of how it can affect people.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Chili Palmer said:
..
Another example are chip tournaments. Given my rating we don't get too many chips while players of similar skill level get more chips because their Fargo is lower than mine.

This is partly my fault for not playing BCA anymore but it should give a couple of examples of how it can affect people.
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If a tournament uses FargoRate to decide handicaps, it should also submit results to FargoRate. Otherwise a player can choose to play poorly in the reported events and well in the unreported events. Sounds like a TD issue.
 
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