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Another interesting scenario - Racking - 06-19-2019, 05:41 AM

Hey All,

Leave it to my 14.1 league to come up with these obscure scenario's


During a league 14.1 match, the players are playing Rack Your Own (which in my opinion, both players take the risk that something may go wrong with). The player goes to rack the balls, and one of the object balls he is handling to put in the rack slips out of his hands. that object bounced into the rail and ended up crashing into the cueball.

What do you do in this scenario, is it a foul ?

The way I ruled it, is that it is not a foul and both players would have to agree on where the CB was. I feel that this was an accident, and no rule books have rulings on this based on a rack your own format. plus it wasn't during a shot.

What do you all think ?

TIA
Steve


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Bob Jewett
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06-19-2019, 07:14 AM

I think the general principle is that the referee cannot foul. If a player is acting as the referee -- and is acting in good faith -- his "fouls" are reversed as well as possible and the game continues. I don't recall any written rule that covers this explicitly.


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06-19-2019, 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think the general principle is that the referee cannot foul. If a player is acting as the referee -- and is acting in good faith -- his "fouls" are reversed as well as possible and the game continues. I don't recall any written rule that covers this explicitly.
thx Bob,

so in your opinion did I rule it correctly ?

I remember one year during the worlds 14.1 the referee grabbed the breakball and racked it in with the other balls. and they asked the crowd if the breakball was put back into the correct spot. so I went on that went I chose to have them both agree upon where the cueball was before said ball knocked it out of position.


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06-19-2019, 01:48 PM

I rule it as not a foul... it happens fairly often and unintentionally. Just put the ball back where it was.

What if your opponent does it when they are racking? How can it be a foul on them when it's not
even their shot? So, it's not a foul if either player does it accidentally.
  
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06-19-2019, 02:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
... so I went on that went I chose to have them both agree upon where the cueball was before said ball knocked it out of position.
I think that was the best solution.


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06-21-2019, 05:53 AM

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Originally Posted by zencues.com View Post
I rule it as not a foul... it happens fairly often and unintentionally. Just put the ball back where it was.

What if your opponent does it when they are racking? How can it be a foul on them when it's not
even their shot? So, it's not a foul if either player does it accidentally.
What if the 2 players can't agree on where it was? The exact placement of that cue ball could be very important or it may not, depending on the angle it leaves in relation to the 15th ball and the racked balls. I'd say if that's the case and both players can't agree, the opponent (not the player that committed the act) would ultimately get to place the ball where he thinks it was. If the shooter who committed this controversy through his/her carelessness disagrees, too bad, that's his/her penalty for having done it.

This is very much the same as the opponent having the option to keep an object ball that is accidentally moved during a shot by the shooter in it's new position, or moving it back to where the shooter thinks it was, depending on which option is more advantageous for the opponent. The opponent having the option is essentially the penalty for the shooter having committed the act of accidentally moving a ball.
  
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06-21-2019, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
What if the 2 players can't agree on where it was? The exact placement of that cue ball could be very important or it may not, depending on the angle it leaves in relation to the 15th ball and the racked balls. I'd say if that's the case and both players can't agree, the opponent (not the player that committed the act) would ultimately get to place the ball where he thinks it was. If the shooter who committed this controversy through his/her carelessness disagrees, too bad, that's his/her penalty for having done it.

This is very much the same as the opponent having the option to keep an object ball that is accidentally moved during a shot by the shooter in it's new position, or moving it back to where the shooter thinks it was, depending on which option is more advantageous for the opponent. The opponent having the option is essentially the penalty for the shooter having committed the act of accidentally moving a ball.
But what if it were the opponent that was racking ? I guess then it would be up to the shooter.


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06-21-2019, 01:46 PM

This is how I handle it when I make the mistake (which I have made several times).

I immediately put the moved ball(s) back to where it was approximately, and then I tell my opponent
"that's where I think it was" and then I tell them to adjust it anywhere they think it was and I go sit down...
I made the mistake. I live with the result.
  
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06-22-2019, 08:58 PM

I agree that this should not be a foul. As Bob said, when re-racking, the player is performing a function that a referee would normally do, and as such, normal play and rules should be considered to be suspended during this time. So, IMO, a player that accidentally moves a ball during this time could not and should not be assessed with a foul.
  
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questions with no referee format?
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questions with no referee format? - Today, 02:20 PM

There will always be major issues when players try to juggle being there own referee, this will always be a constant. Even in a qualifier event - THERE SHOULD BE A REF. To hold a major 14.1 event any other way is a disaster for the players and spectators (some who may have paid to watch).
  
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