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fastone371
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10-21-2020, 08:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bignick31985 View Post
4 and 3/8" corners on my GC IV. Done by Mark Gregory. Plays great. Wouldn't change it at all. Superspeed cushions, 860HR.


I thought I measured mine to be 4 3/8" and I can not get 2 balls side by side in the opening. Maybe I measure too far out on the opening?? Josh Ebert at Club Billiards did mine, Artemis cushions, very happy with my table.
  
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  (#17)
iusedtoberich
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10-21-2020, 08:59 AM

Man just to reiterate, don't ever put anything but superspeed on a GC. I went to Drexeline Billiards in PA last night. They have 20 GC4 tables, purchased new in 2001 or so. (I was there when they were purchased). They have played jam up all these years. About 5 years ago, 4 of the tables that were previously triple shimmed for 1 hole play had new cushions installed in an extended fashion to make the pockets tight for one hole, without using shims. (One hole is the main game in this room). The owner told me at the time he put the Diamond cushions on it, and was very proud that the tables had new Diamond cushions. It has to be the black, not the Artemis, because the cushion is not very rounded like the Artemis is. (But disclaimer I never saw these 4 tables without the cloth).


During the day when the crowd is thin and the tables are dry, these extended rails play a little faster than the other tables with the original superposed from 2001, but not crazy fast. But at night, when the crowd is bigger, the room is more humid, and the balls are actually sticky (you can see the stickiness with your eyes) they play like pin ball machines. Just as bad as a Diamond when its humid. If you move over one table to the original superspeed in the same conditions, it plays normal speed.

I can't wrap my head around why anyone likes these Diamond cushions, be it Black or Artemis. Go to any room that is slightly humid, with old cloth, and you will want to pull your hair out at how unnaturally the balls fly off the rails. And move over one table to superspeed, and all is good.

This is my opinion, and I'm no champion, but its a super strong opinion. The top players in the room say the same thing.
  
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  (#18)
Lawnboy77
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10-21-2020, 02:31 PM

I love the Artemis cushions. In my opinion they play like the old school rubber made in the U.S.A used to play like. I currently have two sets of rails for my Anniversary. Both professionally built, or overhauled, one with Artemis and the other set are Pro-cut with Superspeeds. As far as the banking short goes, I've not noticed anything like that. A 5 rail kick is the same for both, it's just that the Artemis are noticeably quieter and don't require as much power to go 5 rails. It's a fairly easy adjustment to go from one or the other. I suspect the situations where rails are too fast and jumping are just ones that aren't set up right, not necessarily the fault of the rubber.
  
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  (#19)
JoeyInCali
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10-22-2020, 02:36 PM

I hate my Artemis.
Hate it .
  
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fastone371
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10-23-2020, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
Man just to reiterate, don't ever put anything but superspeed on a GC. I went to Drexeline Billiards in PA last night. They have 20 GC4 tables, purchased new in 2001 or so. (I was there when they were purchased). They have played jam up all these years. About 5 years ago, 4 of the tables that were previously triple shimmed for 1 hole play had new cushions installed in an extended fashion to make the pockets tight for one hole, without using shims. (One hole is the main game in this room). The owner told me at the time he put the Diamond cushions on it, and was very proud that the tables had new Diamond cushions. It has to be the black, not the Artemis, because the cushion is not very rounded like the Artemis is. (But disclaimer I never saw these 4 tables without the cloth).


During the day when the crowd is thin and the tables are dry, these extended rails play a little faster than the other tables with the original superposed from 2001, but not crazy fast. But at night, when the crowd is bigger, the room is more humid, and the balls are actually sticky (you can see the stickiness with your eyes) they play like pin ball machines. Just as bad as a Diamond when its humid. If you move over one table to the original superspeed in the same conditions, it plays normal speed.

I can't wrap my head around why anyone likes these Diamond cushions, be it Black or Artemis. Go to any room that is slightly humid, with old cloth, and you will want to pull your hair out at how unnaturally the balls fly off the rails. And move over one table to superspeed, and all is good.

This is my opinion, and I'm no champion, but its a super strong opinion. The top players in the room say the same thing.
My guess is that the sub-rail angle is not right on those tables. In hindsight I think I wish I had put Superspeeds on my GC but when I had my rails done everyone and their brother was installing Artemis so thats what I used. I can not fault the Artemis cushions on my table one bit. Since my table is in the basement I often get to play in humid conditions in the summer, if anything I think my table slows down a little rather than speeds up in high humidity but the difference is minute.
  
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  (#21)
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10-23-2020, 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastone371 View Post
My guess is that the sub-rail angle is not right on those tables. In hindsight I think I wish I had put Superspeeds on my GC but when I had my rails done everyone and their brother was installing Artemis so thats what I used. I can not fault the Artemis cushions on my table one bit. Since my table is in the basement I often get to play in humid conditions in the summer, if anything I think my table slows down a little rather than speeds up in high humidity but the difference is minute.

I have the same experience as you, as mine is in a basement as well.

The subrails on mine were tuned for the cushions.


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  (#22)
JoeyInCali
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10-23-2020, 01:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastone371 View Post
My guess is that the sub-rail angle is not right on those tables. In hindsight I think I wish I had put Superspeeds on my GC but when I had my rails done everyone and their brother was installing Artemis so thats what I used. I can not fault the Artemis cushions on my table one bit. Since my table is in the basement I often get to play in humid conditions in the summer, if anything I think my table slows down a little rather than speeds up in high humidity but the difference is minute.
The designers of the Superspeed knew what they were doing.
Make the contact point as small as possible to eliminate the grab as much as possible.
Superspeed's tip is sharper while Artemis is more rounded.
  
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  (#23)
fastone371
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10-24-2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
The designers of the Superspeed knew what they were doing.
Make the contact point as small as possible to eliminate the grab as much as possible.
Superspeed's tip is sharper while Artemis is more rounded.
I have never played on anything newer than a GC4, maybe if I had I would throw away my Artemis cushions immediately but comparing my table to a blue label Diamond I am more than satisfied with it.
  
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10-24-2020, 04:10 PM

Damn fine post. This is a FACT in my book.
the Artemis has a "belly" and that allows more contact on the ball.

Now, we all know Diamond is NEVER going to change their table and I have grown to love them. I love all of the GC's Anniversary and Centennial, they created pool as we all know it. Diamond has taken things to the next level.

Good to hear from you Joey, I hope all is well out your way!

TFT


Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
The designers of the Superspeed knew what they were doing.
Make the contact point as small as possible to eliminate the grab as much as possible.
Superspeed's tip is sharper while Artemis is more rounded.
  
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