Why so many Joint Thread Screw sizes ?

nancewayne

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why are there SO MANY different joint screw sizes?

Also, apparently there are more than one Uni- (loc or lok or ?) joints. Very confusing!
AND why would anyone put a 3/8 X 11 1/2 joint on their cues?
I thought I had the right joint protectors for my BCM 3/8 X 11 joint and put
S.W. 3/8 X 11 1/2 on it and partially stripped the female joint (into the wood) on the shaft !

Is it the Custom Cue Makers that makes the decision to use an odd-ball joint size and if so, WHY ???
 
matcase

matcase

Blondie's #1 fan
Silver Member
I think a nice cue could be made with almost any type of screw....even some types of slip connections. Screws are very suitable and useful. I think it boils down to the word custom. I believe most makers take mucho pride in their stuff...so much so, that they prefer you to use shafts they have made on their cues. Their research and development has led them to strong opinions about how certain things should be done, and if it takes a unique thread to keep people from tinkering with the cue makers ideas then so be it. Also, if a custom threaded screw makes ya happy, do it. No sense in having conformity take the enjoyment out of something as personal as your own manufacturing.
 
Big Perm

Big Perm

1pkt 14.1 8 Banks 9 10
Silver Member
nancewayne said:
Why are there SO MANY different joint screw sizes?

Also, apparently there are more than one Uni- (loc or lok or ?) joints. Very confusing!
AND why would anyone put a 3/8 X 11 1/2 joint on their cues?
I thought I had the right joint protectors for my BCM 3/8 X 11 joint and put
S.W. 3/8 X 11 1/2 on it and partially stripped the female joint (into the wood) on the shaft !

Is it the Custom Cue Makers that makes the decision to use an odd-ball joint size and if so, WHY ???
Click to expand...

Because they can :wink:

Some probably have a style they prefer, some probably do it because it produces a certain kind of hit they are shooting for, and others probably do it because it's what their customer wanted......or, it could be as simple as it was the cheapest one they could find in their section of the country....also, people like options and everybody wants to get in their two cents one way or another...

Look at the auto industry - there is like 100 different sizes of oil filters.....sure would be easy if you just had one for cars, one for trucks, and so on :grin-square:
 
nancewayne

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why so many Joint Thread Screw sizes?

I tend to agree that a "Custom" cue maker using an unusual thread pattern DOES force the use of their shafts (since you can't get that thread on any other shaft?). I wonder why the "Greats", Balabushka, G. Szamboti, etc. used standard sizes?

A custom threaded shaft doesn't make me happy because that "Custom" cue maker usually doesn't make joint protectors in their size joints! (and nobody else does, either!)




matcase said:
I think a nice cue could be made with almost any type of screw....even some types of slip connections. Screws are very suitable and useful. I think it boils down to the word custom. I believe most makers take mucho pride in their stuff...so much so, that they prefer you to use shafts they have made on their cues. Their research and development has led them to strong opinions about how certain things should be done, and if it takes a unique thread to keep people from tinkering with the cue makers ideas then so be it. Also, if a custom threaded screw makes ya happy, do it. No sense in having conformity take the enjoyment out of something as personal as your own manufacturing.
Click to expand...
 
SCCues

SCCues

< Searing Twins
Silver Member
nancewayne said:
Why are there SO MANY different joint screw sizes?

Also, apparently there are more than one Uni- (loc or lok or ?) joints. Very confusing!
AND why would anyone put a 3/8 X 11 1/2 joint on their cues?
I thought I had the right joint protectors for my BCM 3/8 X 11 joint and put
S.W. 3/8 X 11 1/2 on it and partially stripped the female joint (into the wood) on the shaft !

Is it the Custom Cue Makers that makes the decision to use an odd-ball joint size and if so, WHY ???
Click to expand...

I don't get it either other than the odd joint pins bring business back to the cue maker since you can't just buy a shaft anywhere for the odd threads used by some cue makers.

I have a good story for you. I bought a used JW cue in perfect condition from someone on this forum. I loved the design of the cue and it was advertised as having a 5/16x14 SS joint which was perfect for me because I already had a couple of 5/16x14 thread predator shafts that I was used to playing with. I thought when I bought the cue I could use my predator shafts on it, but to my surprise the JW 5/16x14 thread joint pin was an "ACME" thread and not a standard 5/16x14. I'd never heard of this before on custom cues and when I tried to screw on one of my predator shafts it wouldn't go on. I couldn't understand it until I did some checking and that's when I found out about "ACME" threaded joint pins. I learned that lesson the hard way. I don't understand why a cue maker would use an "ACME" thread instead of a standard thread.

James
 
javi2

javi2

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
nancewayne said:
I tend to agree that a "Custom" cue maker using an unusual thread pattern DOES force the use of their shafts (since you can't get that thread on any other shaft?). I wonder why the "Greats", Balabushka, G. Szamboti, etc. used standard sizes?

A custom threaded shaft doesn't make me happy because that "Custom" cue maker usually doesn't make joint protectors in their size joints! (and nobody else does, either!)
Click to expand...

Just so I know...what would be considered a "standard" size. What did these cue makers use?
 
nancewayne

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why so many Joint Thread Screw sizes?

Also, Schon, which used a 5/16X14 joint apparently now (or perhaps earlier) had some slightly different screw or screw pitch that didn't allow the "standard" 5/16X14 to fit!


SCCues said:
I don't get it either other than the odd joint pins bring business back to the cue maker since you can't just buy a shaft anywhere for the odd threads used by some cue makers.

I have a good story for you. I bought a used JW cue in perfect condition from someone on this forum. I loved the design of the cue and it was advertised as having a 5/16x14 SS joint which was perfect for me because I already had a couple of 5/16x14 thread predator shafts that I was used to playing with. I thought when I bought the cue I could use my predator shafts on it, but to my surprise the JW 5/16x14 thread joint pin was an "ACME" thread and not a standard 5/16x14. I'd never heard of this before on custom cues and when I tried to screw on one of my predator shafts it wouldn't go on. I couldn't understand it until I did some checking and that's when I found out about "ACME" threaded joint pins. I learned that lesson the hard way. I don't understand why a cue maker would use an "ACME" thread instead of a standard thread.

James
Click to expand...
 
Hidy Ho

Hidy Ho

Missed 4 rail hanger!!!
Silver Member
True on JW ACME thread ... because I got one older JW with ACME thread. Couldn't find joint protectors anywhere until one nice cue maker (Michael Webb - you rock!!!) made me a set as he had a tap for it.

True on Schon .. I can't remember but I had issue with older Schon shaft not screwing onto newer Schon or visa versa.

Also, some McDaniel cues use different pitch 5/16x14 thread.

Radial pin, there is Schmelke and Uni-Loc versions .. and Paul Drexler use THIRD version that is not Schmelke or Uni-loc

And 3/8x10, 3/8x11, 3/8x12, 3/8x14 and on and on and on ...

We are being SCREWED :)
 
swrooster

swrooster

A HOTDOG ROAD PLAYER!!
Silver Member
Had the oppourtunity to speak with Donald Bludworth last week and specifically asked why the the wierd 3/8x11.5 pin. He said it tightened up the shaft to the butt tighter and wouldn't work loose because of the pitch angle. However; he would use any type of pin that I wanted for a new one. A cue maker that I know bought a $100.00 part to attach to his lathe just to work on this specific shaft.
 
nancewayne

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why so many Joint Thread Screw sizes?

Most of the production (mass assembly) cues have either a 5/16X18, 5/16X14, or 3/8X10. The slightly lesser volume of production cue joints are a Uni-Loc (Predator), a 3/8X8 Radial (Predator), a 3/8X14 (Cuetec) and recently a number of productin cue mfgs. are modifying some of those joints to allow "quick-release" instead of screwing all the way to the joint collar. Many imports (Chinese) also have modified the basic joints to make them "quick-release". The 3/8X11 or 3/8X11 1/2 are Custom cue makers joints as are other sizes, but not very many of those are made. Carom cues often use a WOOD 1/2 X ? screw directly into wood in the shaft.

I hope this explanation helps!



javi2 said:
Just so I know...what would be considered a "standard" size. What did these cue makers use?
Click to expand...
 
johnqbs

johnqbs

john@qbs
Silver Member
joint screw sizes .

the first thing that came to my mind after reading this thread , is preference . we all have diference thoughts and ideas as what hits and
has the best feel.back in the old country as to say a few years ago.
i was in a pool hall banging balls as i looked up everyone was huddled
up in a circle , i thought for sure one of them would run the ball, or kick
a field goal. so i went over to see , one of the guys had a brochre of
meucci cues everyone was wanting a cue , and ray a local car dealer
plus one good pool player . ray was asking about the joint type .
he made the statement he would buy one if it had the flat face
wood to wood joint 5/16th 18 per inch thread. that has always stuck
with me to this day . good as he could play how could he be wrong.
i ordered a jacoby custom a while back what kind of joint did i ask for
right a flat face wood to wood 5/16 18 per inch plays just like the old
meucci i bought. i sure you would like to know thats the way it was back
in the seventys . when i think about these stories , i often think how good
and easy life was back then. no matter how many old cues i buy and play with i will never be eighteen again. but it sure makes me feels good to think
about it from time to time. i am not in the joint and not smokeing a joint
the only joint i want is on a pool cue. tell your story .
take care until the next time john 107 :anderson sc
 
magnetardo

magnetardo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
nancewayne said:
Why are there SO MANY different joint screw sizes?

Also, apparently there are more than one Uni- (loc or lok or ?) joints. Very confusing!
AND why would anyone put a 3/8 X 11 1/2 joint on their cues?
I thought I had the right joint protectors for my BCM 3/8 X 11 joint and put
S.W. 3/8 X 11 1/2 on it and partially stripped the female joint (into the wood) on the shaft !

Is it the Custom Cue Makers that makes the decision to use an odd-ball joint size and if so, WHY ???
Click to expand...


Are you sure your BCM cue is 3/8x11? I thought he used a 3/8x10 on his cues??
 
cubswin

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
magnetardo said:
Are you sure your BCM cue is 3/8x11? I thought he used a 3/8x10 on his cues??
Click to expand...

I'd check with Brian, pretty sure he has used both pin types, switching over to 3/8x10 about 4 years ago from 3/8x11.



think one reason there is so many types is that cuemakers like to tinker with things to get the best results. Custom makers can use whatever they like after all.
 
nancewayne

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why so many Joint Thread Screw sizes?

AND...after all, they DO !!! (damn!)


cubswin said:
I'd check with Brian, pretty sure he has used both pin types, switching over to 3/8x10 about 4 years ago from 3/8x11.



think one reason there is so many types is that cuemakers like to tinker with things to get the best results. Custom makers can use whatever they like after all.
Click to expand...
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Too many bastard pins there imo too.
I think some people who made their own bastard pins just wanted the shaft business for their cues.
 
nancewayne

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Too many Joint thread sizes !

Now I've gone and done it !!! I bought a used Mike Stacey cue that has a 3/8X11 joint~! I need Joint Protectors, (Delrin with silver ring are fine). Any help out there ??? THANKS

nancewayne said:
Most of the production (mass assembly) cues have either a 5/16X18, 5/16X14, or 3/8X10. The slightly lesser volume of production cue joints are a Uni-Loc (Predator), a 3/8X8 Radial (Predator), a 3/8X14 (Cuetec) and recently a number of productin cue mfgs. are modifying some of those joints to allow "quick-release" instead of screwing all the way to the joint collar. Many imports (Chinese) also have modified the basic joints to make them "quick-release". The 3/8X11 or 3/8X11 1/2 are Custom cue makers joints as are other sizes, but not very many of those are made. Carom cues often use a WOOD 1/2 X ? screw directly into wood in the shaft.

I hope this explanation helps!
Click to expand...
 
M

Mitchxout

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
5/16x18 used by Huebler is slightly smaller and uses a nylon insert.

The same size pin is used by Viking but the top half is a "bullet" that won't accept a conventional 5/16x18 shaft.

A Meucci shaft will fit loosely on a Huebler butt, but it won't screw onto a Viking at all.

All 3 are 5/16x18.
 
J

Jim Baxter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
swrooster said:
Had the oppourtunity to speak with Donald Bludworth last week and specifically asked why the the wierd 3/8x11.5 pin. He said it tightened up the shaft to the butt tighter and wouldn't work loose because of the pitch angle. However; he would use any type of pin that I wanted for a new one. A cue maker that I know bought a $100.00 part to attach to his lathe just to work on this specific shaft.
Click to expand...

I think if you believe that , I have a bridge for sale .
 
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