CJ Wiley's Adventures on the Road - featuring Minnesota Fats Influence

CJ Wiley said:

Yes, Hayti had a good player, Danny Cook.

Poplar Bluff is close to the bootheal, I have some friends there, Jimmy Vernon is one that I visited last year.

Sikeston had some big pool action and some brutal underworld characters, I know they had a shooting at one of the places and most people in the place were killed, it seems like I met a surviver that was in the bathroom, memory is foggy....it's been a lot of years, most of my gambling there was in my teenage years.

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I'm a little older than you and would have been a little before your time there. I grew up in Caruthersville but did go to Hayti some and drank a few drinks at the Idle Hour and they had some bar tables to play on. I've been gone so long many of the names escape me now.

There were always a lot of underworld characters in that area. During the 50s, 60,s and 70,s it was about like a shooting gallery at times, but then most of the major players were killed or jailed.

It was always a big gambling area.

fjk said:

CJ,

I enjoy your stories, thanks for creating and posting them.

Many feel that hanging on to the old road stories and hustler days aren't doing today's pool any favors. Me personally, I feel they make the game entertaining. Professional pool, by itself, can be a boring spectator sport (and I really love the game). Think of how boring watching professional pool would be to a non-pool fanatic. It's the characters and personalities that make the game fun, interesting and exciting to watch (i.e. entertaining).

Perhaps today's emotionless, personalityless, "gentleman" strategy to make pool mainstream has got it all wrong.

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I play with about 120 people in 3 leagues. Perhaps 3 or 4 could name a current professional pool player. 80% likely have heard of the name, Minnesota Fats.Few would go see pros play if given free tickets. I wouldn’t. I’d also rather go fishing than watch someone else fish.

In contrast. Our Snooker league would go en masse to see top Snooker players if playing in our city. The emotional highlight of the tournament on the table might be a raised eyebrow. It’s the game on the table.

Repeat...It’s the game. I find baseball...snore. In contrast, Knowledgeable baseball fans enjoy the intricacies. American pool doesn’t offer intricacies. Until the pockets are reduced to 4” or the players change at the table after the break...to create strategy...nothing with change.

The issue With Minnesota Fats, Strickland, etc. Is that they are ‘blips’. Bad behaviour draws temporary attention...but, like a drug, personalities needs to be upped, or the audience fades away and looks to the next thing...Roller Derby or WWF. Ali fights Frazier...huge draw. 20 years later it’s who against who? ...rise of WFC.

Geosnooker said:

I play with about 120 people in 3 leagues. Perhaps 3 or 4 could name a current professional pool player. 80% likely have heard of the name, Minnesota Fats.Few would go see pros play if given free tickets. I wouldn’t. I’d also rather go fishing than watch someone else fish.

In contrast. Our Snooker league would go en masse to see top Snooker players if playing in our city. The emotional highlight of the tournament on the table might be a raised eyebrow. It’s the game on the table.

Repeat...It’s the game. I find baseball...snore. In contrast, Knowledgeable baseball fans enjoy the intricacies. American pool doesn’t offer intricacies. Until the pockets are reduced to 4” or the players change at the table after the break...to create strategy...nothing with change.

The issue With Minnesota Fats, Strickland, etc. Is that they are ‘blips’. Bad behaviour draws temporary attention...but, like a drug, personalities needs to be upped, or the audience fades away and looks to the next thing...Roller Derby or WWF. Ali fights Frazier...huge draw. 20 years later it’s who against who? ...rise of WFC.

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Here's a funny story about how sad today's professional pool is. A few years back I went to the Turning Stone 9-ball tournament. For those of you that have never been there, it’s a beautiful venue played in a casino ballroom. No charge to get in.

Anyway, on the winners side was a huge match. I can’t recall who it was, maybe Shaw, Shane or Earl. Two of the best players in the world and it doesn’t cost a penny to watch them. Despite that, the bleachers were empty. There was a small crown seated around the table and a lot of them were family and other tournament players. So I sit front and center in the bleachers and am pretty excited about the match. I sat next to an older guy probably in his 70s. I’m so excited I’m talking to this stranger about the match and commenting on bad rolls and nice shots. When the match was through, I finally reached out my hand and introduced myself. Once I learned his name I asked where he played. That’s when he informed me he didn’t play at all. His wife was still gambling and he got tired of standing. He came in the tournament because the seating looked comfortable.

Here's my two cents on what pool needs:
• Tighter pockets. Keep tightening them until running a rack of 9 ball is impressive. Today’s equipment is such good quality and so consistent, and today’s players are so strong, it’s often difficult to differentiate who the better player is. Everybody consistently runs out! If we had tighter pockets, players would have to take a few more risks to get better position and we’d see who the better all-around player is.
• Slow the tables way, way down. I want to see some strokes let loose to move the cue ball.
• Mandatory push out after each break. I want to watch strategy and players try to outsmart each other.
• Gambling. Look at how popular poker is on TV. I’m not a poker player but I love watching those high stakes games. It’s fun to watch their expressions and see who has the most nerve to do something aggressive. I don’t think it would be as much fun watching them play a $1-5 game.
• Personalities. Poker is fun because they have broad array of characters.

CJ Wiley said:

I started going to Columbia to play when I was 15, the pool room was called The Columbia Billiard Center, I guy named Phil and his wife Maggie ran it...she still owns a pool room in Springfield Missouri currently.

There was a lot of action back then, I've won thousands of dollars gambling there, they used to host the Missouri State Championships (I finished 2nd when 17 years old to a man from St Louis Tom Ferry).

The place to play in Columbia now is downtown, a man named Less owns he is an accomplished player that can tell you many stories about the "good ole days" at the CBC.

It's coincidental that I received a text earlier from a teenage girlfriend that I met at the Columbia Billiard Center and took on the road - small world isn't it?:thumbup:

Play Well, The Game is the Teacher

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You are referring to Phil Spudich. Unfortunately Phil passed away from a heart attack in 2015. He was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam. The tables Les has in Billiards on Broadway he bought from Phil when Phil closed his pool hall on 9th Street next door to Booches.

Tom Ferry was well known among long time players in St Louis.

part of the problem most pool rooms are closed and few places to play. so new players have to go to bars. attracting pool players to do anything that costs them money is futile.
to get a money maker you need to get those that dont know much about pool to get involved. and all they know is 8 ball.
the day is gone where the general public is going to watch a slow game like pool. bowling has hit the dirt as well it isnt on tv anymore and was back when pool was king.

you need gambling and big money changing hands and excitement. not going to happen unless you can get all the league players attention. that is where the money is now and the mass of players. they are your audience. if you look elsewhere you are not going to make it.

spktur said:

C J back when you prowling around Missouri playing did you ever get down into the Bootheel area? I grew up there and would like to hear any stories you might have from there.

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I played all over the Bootheel. That is where I grew up and worked in the Sportsman's Club. That was a few years before CJ's time.

That area was "wild" back in the late 60s and early 70s.

North East Arkansas was the same.

It wasn't hard to win money back then, but you had to watch your back.

HawaiianEye said:

I played all over the Bootheel. That is where I grew up and worked in the Sportsman's Club. That was a few years before CJ's time.

That area was "wild" back in the late 60s and early 70s.

North East Arkansas was the same.

It wasn't hard to win money back then, but you had to watch your back.

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Yeah we've talked before and I knew you were from around Kennett. I was in the room on 25 just north of 84 but that was about all in that area. Hit a few beer joints around Hayti and grew up up in Caruthersville

CJ , I also wanted to ask what places or stories do you have about Kentucky were I am From. The Continental inn used to put on some big tourny's and I can remember Earl Strickland and Nick Varner among others being there. Do you have any good Ky road stories , Thank you in Advance.

CJ Wiley said:

I have made a 45 minute video outlining some of the most essential parts of the project, mostly how to create the entertainment, excitement and strategic value on the pool table.

I have some key people interested in Atlanta, Vegas, New Orleans and Dallas, but haven't been able to put the pieces together especially in the last month. I see where this latest scenario is going now so there may be an opportunity that I had never considered before.

We live in a world that will never be the same, so it's important to be flexible and creative.... understanding where the trend is leading and act accordingly - Indoor games and sports may suddenly be the way of the world since social interaction will never be allowed openly like it was in the past.

I appreciate your input, coming back to this forum indicates I'm working towards something, you probably already figured that out.

Play Well

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Keep in mind that the 1918 Pandemic was far worse in the US than the Covid-19 Pandemic.

The US shook it off after a period of time. When the population of the US was approximately 110 million, the 1918 Pandemic killed 675,000 Americans.

It may have killed world wide from 50 to 100 million folks.

spktur said:

Yeah we've talked before and I knew you were from around Kennett. I was in the room on 25 just north of 84 but that was about all in that area. Hit a few beer joints around Hayti and grew up up in Caruthersville

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I used to play with the Deputy Sheriff of Pemiscot county back then. His name was Gene Little and he used to go around hustling one-pocket.

The Sheriff of Pemiscot County was a bit shady, too, if you know what I mean. He owned the big Chaparral Steak House and night club in Hayti or Caruthersville.

The Idle Hour in Hayti usually had something going on.

HawaiianEye said:

I used to play with the Deputy Sheriff of Pemiscot county back then. His name was Gene Little and he used to go around hustling one-pocket.

The Sheriff of Pemiscot County was a bit shady, too, if you know what I mean. He owned the big Chaparral Steak House and night club in Hayti or Caruthersville.

The Idle Hour in Hayti usually had something going on.

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Yeah, the sheriff was Clyde Orton, he was ousted by the state attorney general but he popular enough that he was re-elected the next election. I recognize the deputy's name but I didn't know him. The Chaparral was one of the things that went against the sheriff. The state didn't think a sheriff should have a liquor license.

I like the Idle Hour, could be a little rough but was generally a friendly bar to go to. On I think Thursday nights they would have a cookout and cook whatever had been caught or killed hunting that week.

CJ Wiley said:

Small world, The IDLE HOUR was a great little action spot, I was there back when I had a fake ID :groucho: There was also a big nightclub a few miles into Arkansas that had action, the KIT KAT or something like that.

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You probably know of, or heard of, Cotton Smith from Poplar Bluff or "St Louis Blackie” Ardell LeSieur. They used to travel the Bootheel looking for one-pocket games. Blackie started out as a teen in Hayti, MO.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4378355/blackie-lesieurinterview/

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4376691/ardell-blackie-lesieur/

Here is a photo of Cotton: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5700778&postcount=137

You and your fake IDs. LOL.

I played all the joints in that area and never needed an ID and they knew I wasn't 21. I probably drank in every joint for miles and miles around SEMO and NEAR. At that time, you were supposed to be 21 just to get in the door.

I used to sit at the bar and drink with the Prosecuting Attorney of Dunklin County when I was in High School.

There was another place I used to drive over to and get some games. A place called the Longbranch Club right as you were entering Dyersburg, TN. At that time, TN was one of the states that allowed people who were 18 to drink. The last time I went into that place I took everybody's money and had to haul ass out the door with everybody chasing me and trying to rob me and get their money back.