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ghost ball
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10-22-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
lately I've had a few steep cuts with inside miss
realized I'm not very well-versed hitting with inside in general
except on a few shots (ironically, steep cuts is one)
so I decided to play a few racks using inside, exclusively
to my surprise, I shot pretty ok
even on shots where using inside seemed counter-intuitive
I potted well, and found a way to get position most of time anyway
thinking about contact points, angles and speed differently was fun
let the games continue
TOI, learn it, love it, live it.


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GLUE SAVES POOL

"When I shoot, my main concerns are if I made a good hit (including ball to rail) and the success of the shot (make or defense).
If you have played for a while, it is rare that you don't notice when it does not happen." from poolpro2
  
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Old
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10-22-2019, 08:21 PM

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Originally Posted by ghost ball View Post
TOI, learn it, love it, live it.
Indeed the game is the teacher I heard somewhere


"I'm shootin' pool Fats, when I miss you can shoot."
  
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Old
  (#18)
HawaiianEye
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10-22-2019, 08:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine ... corner View Post
Indeed the game is the teacher I heard somewhere
Shhhhhhhhhh

We can't use "that acronym" or phrase around here.

It drives the "pool scientists" batty.

If one puts enough time into "inside", they truly will experience a different way of "seeing" the table.

I'm not going to argue with the "pool scientists" on here because it would be futile. They just like to "babble" people to death on here with "stuff" that you really don't need to know in order to play the game.

I'm not against' learning things by reading, seeing, or through instruction, but there are plenty of things you can figure out on your own if you put in the time at the table.

The reason many people are "afraid" of inside is because it is "strange" to them. From the very first day they learn, most people will tell them "outside" is the way to go and when they watch people they see them using outside the most.

"Inside" drives the cue ball "away" from the object ball because of the deflection...no matter how minuscule that amount may be (due to cue properties, tip, stroke, stroke speed, etc.) and you must "adjust" for that.

"Outside" drives the cue ball "into" the object ball and you must adjust for that also, but it is way more "forgiving" for the most part...assuming you hit the object ball with the cue ball.

Once again, "pool players" will know what I mean.

I'm not advocating you shouldn't use both, but I would advise people to spend several hours in one or more practice sessions just using "inside" to make themselves more comfortable with it and more knowledgeable on how it can be a major asset in their game.
  
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  (#19)
Johnny Rosato
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10-22-2019, 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
You think the cue squirted more when you used inside? How do you suppose the cue knew when the spin you were applying was inside vs. outside?

I'm pretty sure it's you doing something different, not your cue.

pj
chgo
Telepathy, the cue knew it the moment he thought it!
  
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  (#20)
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10-23-2019, 12:43 AM

I would like to know what Dr Dave says about this.
It has always been my feeling that inside English has more variables than outside, and is far more affected by cue ball speed , condition of the cloth and humidity in the room.
I get a lot of laughs every time i say this but I have found that if the shot is not too far away , if I aim the cue tip at the center of the cue ball in a straight line and then swerve my backhand just before contact with the cueball, to the side I am cutting the ball to , it negates almost all of the extraneous things that happen on the shot and I make the ball a high percentage of the time . No matter what the other conditions are .
When I do this, I can just aim {hit the cueball} like I am using outside .
More than about 3 feet away I get back to guessing.
  
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  (#21)
noMoreSchon
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10-23-2019, 01:08 AM

I used inside for a better part of a month. It was awesome. I learned. I shoot. I practiced.

Now I use center. But if needed, I can and will with no hesitation throw two tips of english

on the cue ball to make it move where it needs to go. As for outside and inside being easier/ harder...

It is all in your head, or more specifically, your eyes. Train those to see correctly, and

learn to trust them, and you too can shoot all the inside you can muster...I have had a

mentor ask me once, which I preferred, draw or follow? To which I answered, what ever

leads me to the next shot. And that is my truth about how comfortable I am using english.

I will do whatever I need to, to make sure I have a shot next.
  
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True statements worded slightly differently confuse some people
Old
  (#22)
ShootingArts
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True statements worded slightly differently confuse some people - 10-23-2019, 01:08 AM

Sometimes true statements worded slightly differently confuse some people. I say that without trying to cause offense. If someone said some shafts make inside easier to play most would agree especially since low deflection and carbon fiber have gotten popular. If someone says the cue stick makes inside easier to play then the scoffers and jokers come out when the exact same thing is being said.

Suppose we take two house cues. One is twenty-one ounces with a 14mm tip. The other is sixteen ounces with a 10mm tip. Once they master shooting with the smaller tip I would bet the farm that most beginning to intermediate players would find the lighter stick easier to play inside with. Now that we can't change just the shaft it should be easy to understand that one cue makes it easier to play inside than the other. Outside too, but that is beyond the scope of this thread! We are talking inside and monkeys here!

Incidentally, the monkey article for those interested:

https://news.gsu.edu/2019/10/14/monk...tsmart-humans/

It is depressing to read how thoroughly impossible some humans find it to think outside a box they have put themselves in!

Hu
  
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  (#23)
Hoser
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10-23-2019, 06:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
Sometimes true statements worded slightly differently confuse some people. I say that without trying to cause offense. If someone said some shafts make inside easier to play most would agree especially since low deflection and carbon fiber have gotten popular. If someone says the cue stick makes inside easier to play then the scoffers and jokers come out when the exact same thing is being said.

Suppose we take two house cues. One is twenty-one ounces with a 14mm tip. The other is sixteen ounces with a 10mm tip. Once they master shooting with the smaller tip I would bet the farm that most beginning to intermediate players would find the lighter stick easier to play inside with. Now that we can't change just the shaft it should be easy to understand that one cue makes it easier to play inside than the other. Outside too, but that is beyond the scope of this thread! We are talking inside and monkeys here!

Incidentally, the monkey article for those interested:

https://news.gsu.edu/2019/10/14/monk...tsmart-humans/

It is depressing to read how thoroughly impossible some humans find it to think outside a box they have put themselves in!

Hu
Thanks for that article Hu, here is a short video you may enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-s4v4Nwd4


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Old
  (#24)
garczar
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10-23-2019, 07:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser View Post
Thanks for that article Hu, here is a short video you may enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-s4v4Nwd4
So if we live in trees, eat bananas, forgo speech and wipe our ass with our hands we could use inside english better?
  
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  (#25)
BilliardsAbout
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10-23-2019, 07:35 AM

Overcutting a shot with inside, as implied above, has to do with not adjusting for deflection.

On shots below a 30-degree cut, inside does little for the cue ball, but can make a handy aiming aid for the player.


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
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  (#26)
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10-23-2019, 09:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
lately I've had a few steep cuts with inside miss
realized I'm not very well-versed hitting with inside in general
except on a few shots (ironically, steep cuts is one)
so I decided to play a few racks using inside, exclusively
to my surprise, I shot pretty ok
even on shots where using inside seemed counter-intuitive
I potted well, and found a way to get position most of time anyway
thinking about contact points, angles and speed differently was fun
let the games continue
If you have a logical system for compensating your aim when using sidespin, there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Regards,
Dave

Last edited by dr_dave; 10-23-2019 at 10:42 AM.
  
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garczar
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10-23-2019, 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
If you have a logical system for compensating your aim when using sidespin, there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Regards,
Dave
That may be technically correct but perception is everything when using spin. I've known players who'd rather walk on broken glass than use inside.
  
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  (#28)
Patrick Johnson
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10-23-2019, 09:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
If you have a logical system for compensating your aim when using sidespin, there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Regards,
Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by garczar View Post
That may be technically correct but perception is everything when using spin. I've known players who'd rather walk on broken glass than use inside.
Knowing the facts about it (especially the fact that it's just a difference in the amount of experience with the shot) may make it easier for those players to learn it.

pj
chgo
  
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was a chuckle!
Old
  (#29)
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was a chuckle! - 10-23-2019, 09:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser View Post
Thanks for that article Hu, here is a short video you may enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-s4v4Nwd4



That was a chuckle and proves the point nicely!

I was watching a match a couple months ago and saw one of our best players ignore a simple shot to run three rails around the table in traffic to get shape. He hit a ball in traffic, was thoroughly hung, and gave ball in hand. He did the same thing twice more in that same match, selected a shot he played a lot more often rather than an easier shot that he didn't play as often.

We get in a certain way of doing something and it is hard to do it differently. I was going to post the monkey article by itself to use as a thread starter and talk about considering options on the pool table but I was pretty sure we would just get tangled up in monkey business like here.

The person playing is under a lot more pressure than the person watching but I do think anyone could practice better shot selection if they saw all of the options. People check to see if their accustomed way is playable and it is often a yes/no answer, looking for a better option doesn't even enter into the picture as a consideration.

I am feeling my age a bit, my primary consideration is starting to be what pattern can I play with the least walking around the table!

Hu


PS: Chimps and higher primates beat us in adaptivity also. They also proved to be better shoppers, choosing quality over fancy merchandizing as you would expect. They know their food!
  
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  (#30)
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10-23-2019, 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Knowing the facts about it (especially the fact that it's just a difference in the amount of experience with the shot) may make it easier for those players to learn it.

pj
chgo
Could very well be the case but i still don't love it after about 40yrs of playing. I've never liked the visuals that inside gives me. I can use it but if there's any other alternative i use that.
  
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