Is this slop?

Slop and luck are two different things. If you make an intended shot even a kick it's not slop. It's intended with a margin of luck. If you call a pocket and it goes two rails because you banged it . That's more luck. I would say missing the five and leaving the opponent stuck behind the five . That was slop.

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Paul Schofield said:

Is this slop?

Your opponent misses the 5 and this is your leave. You call the 8 ball in a particular pocket and it goes in. Is this slop?

If you call a number and place a bet on a roulette wheel and it comes in, are you lucky? After all, it is your intention. You called it.

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I was taught that there is a difference between call pocket and call shot. Call pocket meaning however the ball got there it didn't matter (including slop). Call shot means that if it caromed/banked/comboed (slop) you had to call that for the shot to count. Opinions?

It is my belief that any time you do something intended, it is skill. If you call the kick to the corner, and make it, even if you think you don't know where to hit the rail, and just wing it, it is skill. You may not even realize that you have enough skill to make it, but if it goes as intended, you have just shown that you do indeed have the skill to make it.

Now, you may not yet have enough skill to make it several times in a row, or even better than 50% of the time. But you do have enough skill to make it at least once, and that is all that is required.

That is what great shots are. Low percentage, but yet made. If you take the stance that the kick on the 8 was luck, then you also have to take the stance that there are no great shots, only all luck shots. Terrible attitude to take, and it only denigrates your opponent to make yourself feel better because you feel you couldn't make it on demand one time.

One only has to understand that there is a large difference in skill level from making it one time on demand, to making it every time, or most of the time on demand. If it was made, it was skill. Same as with any other shot.

One must also understand a difference here. If he calls the kick to the corner, and it goes as stated, as a one rail kick straight in to the corner, then it is skill. However, if he makes the same call, but his kick is a little long, and the 8 banks two rails into the intended pocket, then it is luck, not skill. It would be luck, because he missed what he was intending to do, even though the end result is what he wanted. The same can be said for any straight shot that hits the rail before it drops in. In my opinion, you actually missed the pocket, but got a little lucky because of the leeway of hitting the rail and still making it when hit at the right speed. The higher skilled person makes balls cleanly. The lesser skilled person utilizes the rails to help make balls.

So, is it skill or luck when hitting the rail when making an open shot to a pocket? Or is it a little of both? One had enough skill to at least get close enough on the shot to allow the rail aid to pocket the ball. But not enough skill to make the ball cleanly. So, if the ball hits the rail, did he slop it in, or use skill to make it? I say he used skill. While an adequate level of skill, not a very high level of skill.

Paul Schofield said:

Is this slop?

Your opponent misses the 5 and this is your leave. You call the 8 ball in a particular pocket and it goes in. Is this slop?

If you call a number and place a bet on a roulette wheel and it comes in, are you lucky? After all, it is your intention. You called it.

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I don't see any images since work blocks it, but any called pocket where the ball goes in is not really "slop". I'm guessing you called a tough shot that maybe caromed off another all by accident or something but still went in the called pocket since I can't see the pic.

I'd call it a miss and getting lucky hehe. Slop would be an overall banging of the balls hoping something goes in somewhere, where you have no idea where the ball may end up. A low % shot is just that, but it's not "slop" in my eyes.

Skratch said:

I was taught that there is a difference between call pocket and call shot. Call pocket meaning however the ball got there it didn't matter (including slop). Call shot means that if it caromed/banked/comboed (slop) you had to call that for the shot to count. Opinions?

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Technically, both of those mean the same thing to almost everyone. The only time I have seen people whine about a ball hitting a rail on the way in or kissing off another ball near the pocket was among people that did not know the rules of pool to begin with and just regurgitate what they heard other non-players say as "rules".

If some guy asked me to play a set of "called shot" 9 ball, I'd think it was "you call the pocket for the ball" not that you have to call the ball rubbing the rail if you do a shot down the rail and it happens to hit rail first then go in.

hang-the-9 said:

Technically, both of those mean the same thing to almost everyone. The only time I have seen people whine about a ball hitting a rail on the way in or kissing off another ball near the pocket was among people that did not know the rules of pool to begin with and just regurgitate what they heard other non-players say as "rules".

If some guy asked me to play a set of "called shot" 9 ball, I'd think it was "you call the pocket for the ball" not that you have to call the ball rubbing the rail if you do a shot down the rail and it happens to hit rail first then go in.

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Except in extreme nit-picky cases, in call shot you don't have to call the ball nicking the rail on the way in in call shot. However, you do have to call any caroms or kisses involving other balls. Definitely more skill involved playing that way. If you have another ball other than the ball intending to be pocketed very near the pocket, you have to call if you are going to make your ball cleanly, or off the nearby ball.

edit: I did one time have a guy say a shot I made was bad because it nicked the rail. I busted him with his own rules. Next shot he took, I called bad because it hit the angled part of the pocket rail and he didn't call a bank shot. That angled part is still part of the rail. After that, he was so flustered, he didn't know how to make a shot without hitting part of the rail and missed everything. It did make the game rather interesting, because I would always call a bank shot, but had to be careful to hit the right part of the angled rail to make sure it only hit the one rail, and not hit the rail on both sides of the pocket.

Neil said:

Except in extreme nit-picky cases, in call shot you don't have to call the ball nicking the rail on the way in in call shot. However, you do have to call any caroms or kisses involving other balls. Definitely more skill involved playing that way. If you have another ball other than the ball intending to be pocketed very near the pocket, you have to call if you are going to make your ball cleanly, or off the nearby ball.

edit: I did one time have a guy say a shot I made was bad because it nicked the rail. I busted him with his own rules. Next shot he took, I called bad because it hit the angled part of the pocket rail and he didn't call a bank shot. That angled part is still part of the rail. After that, he was so flustered, he didn't know how to make a shot without hitting part of the rail and missed everything. It did make the game rather interesting, because I would always call a bank shot, but had to be careful to hit the right part of the angled rail to make sure it only hit the one rail, and not hit the rail on both sides of the pocket.

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Even caroms or way wild misses that happen to fall in off some banks I've never seen NOT count in either call shot or call pocket. I've never been around anyone in a pool room that saw those two terms as different, but it may depend on the area and maybe even the background of the players. In my league, it's all "called shot" as per this link title "All shots are call shots" but if you read the rules, they are called "call pocket" shots. I really do not make a distinction between the two, which may lead to some misunderstandings, but I would never say someone made a bad shot if we played "call shot" and they banked it two rails into their called pocket instead of one or it kissed off a ball next to the pocket instead of going in clean.

I've run into a few people in bars that have made a distinction, but unless someone explicitly tells me that "called shot" in our game would be "call all the ball contacts during the shot" I would not think that is what it meant.

Wouldnt call it slop... would call it luck.

No...not slop is my answer.

I would however...call the last shot taken by your opponent as a "slop leave"...since it wasn't his intention to leave the 8-ball snookered.

I know...I know...the leave was actually what would be considered luck (bad luck for the incoming shooter)...but this is a form of slop too, imo.

Maniac

Looks like the player shooting the five-ball got a good 'roll' to me. The object for the incoming player is to really make contact with the eight rather than surrendering BIH. In this case the incoming player should also call a pocket, making the eight in the 'called pocket' would be an added bonus on top of being a game winner. Slop or luck you make your own call. It sounds pretty much the same to me, but that's just my own opinion. Oh wait, maybe it someone is getting all the rolls.

Icon of Sin said:

Wouldnt call it slop... would call it luck.

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But, when Efren makes it, it's All Good.

Slop would be a random unanticipated event IMO.

If you call a pocket then you have set up an attempted outcome and eliminated all others. Success may include "luck" but clearly not slop.

I happen to believe how ever that there is a certain level of skill in being able to accurately kick into a specific side of a ball and sending it into a desired direction thereby over riding the pure luck factor in a good player. For that matter, in the given situation, I'm might even see a jump cross corner bank as a decent percentage shot for a strong jumper. Certainly wouldn't call it luck if executed, certainly wouldn't consider it slop.

Slop equals out over time. People blaming slop for a loss are overlooking some shortcomings in their own game.

Ball went into called pocket. Thread closed.

If I'm reading you right..you missed your shot..got lucky that the five rolled in
line with the eight..a jump shot isn't a good shot..it's really not on line for a two
or three rail kick..curve shot is no good for the pot..so that leaves a one rail kick..
sure the odds my be in your favour to get back to the table..but thats just wish full
thinking on your part to feel better about missing your shot an having another turn
at the table for a win..dam he got luckly an kicked it in..has to be slop..bet he couldn't
do it again..bet he couldn't do it five times in a row..guess what..he doesn't have to..
he made the shot..when you shoot with knowledge an skill ; luck will always help out.

You're playing 3-cushion billiards......
.....the second ball is 4 ball's widths out of the corner....
......you play the shot long so that if you miss off 3, you get it off 4 or 5 rails.

Does this make it 'slop' no matter how you make it.....or is it a skillful decision?

Snooker and carombole are two of my favorite games......
.....don't need no stinkin' call shot rules.....
....if your opponent scores, stay in your chair.

IMHO, this thread should be moved to Non-Pool Related, because what's under discussion isn't really pool, but linguistics.

A shot like that is WAY less than 50% Nobody here could ever prove they can make a shot like that 50% of the time. So considering it's probably more like a 15 to 20% shot at best you'd really want to play a two way kick safe. You PLAY the safe by playing the kick and carom off the left side of the 8 to try to block the pocket and or leave a hard shot. You call the 8 in the corner just in case you accidentally knock it in.

In a two way case like that you may not be directly playing the shot but covering your ass in case you do. Slop? Maybe, but it's an educated guess.