The Lag

peppersauce · Feb 26, 2020

Have any of you folks ever experienced any push back from an opponent when asking to lag instead of flip in leagues or tournaments? Is it considered rude to ask for a lag if everyone in the tournament or league is flipping for the break?

My wife and I were talking about random stuff while playing a set and the subject of the lag came up. She mentioned that some people take offense if you ask to lag instead of flip, as it can be considered poor etiquette. I had never thought about it and never had that experience myself, at least not that I noticed. I usually just do what everyone else is doing. The only exception is if I’m playing alternate break and it’s an important match. I prefer to lag because I want the break if the match goes hill-hill, and I’d rather not leave it up to chance.

What do you folks think?

jimmyco · Feb 26, 2020

Lag or flip?

You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky?

Bob Jewett · Feb 26, 2020

peppersauce said:
... What do you folks think?

If you're going to lag in important matches I suppose you should practice in your practice matches.

On a related issue, I know two players that you really don't want to be flipping any coins. :groucho:

evergruven · Feb 26, 2020

peppersauce said:
Have any of you folks ever experienced any push back from an opponent when asking to lag instead of flip in leagues or tournaments? Is it considered rude to ask for a lag if everyone in the tournament or league is flipping for the break?

My wife and I were talking about random stuff while playing a set and the subject of the lag came up. She mentioned that some people take offense if you ask to lag instead of flip, as it can be considered poor etiquette. I had never thought about it and never had that experience myself, at least not that I noticed. I usually just do what everyone else is doing. The only exception is if I’m playing alternate break and it’s an important match. I prefer to lag because I want the break if the match goes hill-hill, and I’d rather not leave it up to chance.

What do you folks think?

lagging (to decide who begins alternate break) is fair
but I've also experienced pushback about it
not sure there can be any clear etiquette
where things depend on people
guess it depends how you mind being perceived
and much it really matters to you
it's a good question
curious what other have to say

peppersauce · Feb 26, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
If you're going to lag in important matches I suppose you should practice in your practice matches.

I do practice my lag. I just don’t lag most of the time. When I’m playing in a tournament that utilizes the lag instead of flipping, I win the lag a lot. :smile:

Bob Jewett said:
On a related issue, I know two players that you really don't want to be flipping any coins.
:groucho:

What did I miss?

Cuebuddy · Feb 26, 2020

I will nearly always win the lag against my wife since her side and of the table is covered with laundry she is trying to fold:frown::frown:

Just kidding

When I practice lagging I like to do the double table lag( hit twice as hard and go down and back down and back. Looks cool and shocks the opposition.

Flipping a coin seems to 50/50 to me.

RiverCity · Feb 26, 2020

In bars/league type situations, I have found lagging to be VERY rare. Almost always a coin flip.

As far as it being bad etiquette? Some people would gripe if you hung them with a new rope. :thumbup:

pt109 · Feb 26, 2020

In a tournament or match where there is no handicap....lag makes sense
In a handicap tournament or match, I can understand the one getting the spot wanting
to flip.

peppersauce · Feb 26, 2020

pt109 said:
In a tournament or match where there is no handicap....lag makes sense
In a handicap tournament or match, I can understand the one getting the spot wanting
to flip.

I never thought about that. Good point.

Bob Jewett · Feb 26, 2020

peppersauce said:
... What did I miss?

It's better not to let some people ever touch the cards or the coins. Some people spend a lot of time with those and they are much better with them than you or I. Several books about Titanic Thompson might be of interest.

Bob Jewett · Feb 26, 2020

pt109 said:
... In a handicap tournament or match, I can understand the one getting the spot wanting to flip.

In one league I've played in, if the spot was 2:1 or more in games on the wire, the better player had the first break.

garczar · Feb 27, 2020

Lagging is about as dead as HulaHoop. Flip it and rip it.

arcstats · Feb 27, 2020

garczar said:
Lagging is about as dead as HulaHoop. Flip it and rip it.

Yeah you wouldn't want anything that requires some practice and talent to get in the way of a random act.

Andrew Manning · Feb 27, 2020

I've never seen anyone push back if their opponent wants to lag. I would consider it very poor sportsmanship if they did push back.

The coin flip is a convenient shortcut that many prefer for that reason, but if you're going to dig your heels in and insist that the first break be decided by chance rather than skill, I don't see how that's a defensible position. If either player wants to lag, there should be a lag, unless the rules of the event mandate a flip.

BRussell · Feb 27, 2020

It’s not etiquette, it’s rules. If the rules say flip, you shouldn’t ask to lag. It’s like asking to play 10-ball in a 9-ball tournament. If you want to lag, you should ask the tournament director to make lag required.

Andrew Manning · Feb 27, 2020

BRussell said:
It’s not etiquette, it’s rules. If the rules say flip, you shouldn’t ask to lag. It’s like asking to play 10-ball in a 9-ball tournament. If you want to lag, you should ask the tournament director to make lag required.

Most often, it's not rules; the majority of events I've played in specify "flip or lag" rather than requiring one or the other.

garczar · Feb 27, 2020

arcstats said:
Yeah you wouldn't want anything that requires some practice and talent to get in the way of a random act.

Its just not done anymore is all. Why the pissy response?? Butt-hurt cause you can't put your super lagging skills on display? Whatever. IMO its a waste of time from a different time.

lfigueroa · Feb 27, 2020

FWIW, everybody lags for the DCC events.

Occasionally someone will want to flip but I always go with the lag.

Lou Figueroa
knows how to lag

Black-Balled · Feb 27, 2020

garczar said:
Its just not done anymore is all. Why the pissy response?? Butt-hurt cause you can't put your super lagging skills on display? Whatever. IMO its a waste of time from a different time.

I can see the desire to use the method that requires/ rewards better execution.

That said, I hate lagging and will always suggest flip. I'll even ask 'you sure we aren't gonna flip?'...which i guess is pushback.

ShootingArts · Feb 27, 2020

doesn't seem right to flip a coin

We are playing pool, not anything dealing with coins except maybe penny markers. It has never made sense to me to flip for the break. However, I would say that over 99% of the time a coin flip has decided who broke first when I played.

As Bob has mentioned some get very good at flipping coins. Others cheat but not well. Almost worth giving up the first break to learn you are going to have to watch them closely.

Coins can also be modified to greatly increase the likelihood of them landing on one side or the other.

One way to make the cheaters work a little harder is to say the coin must hit the light. Another way is to both flip at the same time and call it odd or even.

A lot of ways to cheat a coin flip, ways to shut the cheaters down. Still makes more sense to lag for the break but I only do it if the rules specify lagging or the other person asks to. I try to practice the lag a bit but I rarely get to use it other than for a speed control drill.

Hu

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